I have a hard time regarding the size of the player and the world around. I seem to create brushes too big or too small. For example I might create a room with ledges far too high up than what was intended.
I was hoping someone might know what the players units are inside radiant. And maybe some tips I could use as a guideline when roughing out a design.
On a seperate note..
I can't wait for Quake4!
From what I read the game isnt gonna release with many maps.
so it sounds like the mod/map community will have to pick up where raven and id left off right away. :icon31: :icon14:
if you set the grid to 8 and make a player start entity the bounding box if I remember correctly is the size of the player. Make a floor then make a starting entity and build with that height as your guideline.
Stairs in 8 unit grid - 2 notches (8 +8 = 16 so as above poster said, 16 units)
I always build in 8 unit grids personally but others may have other preferences. If brush edges don't quite line up you may have used a smaller or larger grid earlier than the one you're currently using so keep that in mind if you switch between grid sizes. Took me a while to figure out why I had the tiniest sliver of a crack between two brushes. Then it hit me and I felt stupid for not realizing it earlier lol.
Scale is a bit of a bitch in the Q3 engine. You're constantly weighing what feels right to you as you move through the level against what looks right when you're looking at another player (and they aren't really even all that close sometimes).
Doorways...yeah, 128 high by maybe 96 wide is about the minimum you want to go, unless you want it to be really cramped. Stairs usually look better when they're a bit deeper than they are high--I usually go with 8 high by 16 deep, or maybe 12 deep if you want them to be steep. If you go 16 high, it can start to look a little funky and slightly too big...but yeah, anything in that neighborhood.
I used to have a gigantic text file with various cut-and-pasted tips and measurements and tricks and assorted crap for Q3, and I can't seem to find it and that annoys me.
pjw wrote:I used to have a gigantic text file with various cut-and-pasted tips and measurements and tricks and assorted crap for Q3, and I can't seem to find it and that annoys me.
Unless this was one of your own composition, the text file with the information about the size of the player and physics of the game was installed with q3radiant/gtkradiant. Can't remember the name of the document off the top of my head, but I think it might've been in the \Tools directory. I no longer have radiant installed so I can't simply look for it.
Q3 has weird formats:
8 units should be a foot/roughly 30cm
so:
player is 7 foot tall
player can jump 8 foot high
players spawn from the top of the spawn-point, so have at least 64 units free space above the spawn-point's bottom. Use at least 128 unit high ceilings if you don't want players to bump their head when jumping. Max step height (stairs) = 18 units, and max climb-out height out of water is 16 units(detail brushes can make getting out of water a load harder). Last but not least: you can jump up to 64 units high(alas this hight seems to be system dependend, the slower the sys, the harder it get's to reach that 64 unit ledge)
And to top it all of a Paul Jaquays quote " Q3's doors are big enough to let a Tank drive through with it's barrel straight up"
Anyways, I once read a book regarding a Spanish guy who knew all about mapping and GTKRadiant. The guy's name was Manual.
Hr.O wrote:And to top it all of a Paul Jaquays quote " Q3's doors are big enough to let a Tank drive through with it's barrel straight up"
Anyways, I once read a book regarding a Spanish guy who knew all about mapping and GTKRadiant. The guy's name was Manual.
Quotes of the day!
Problem with scale is that the typical playermodel (looking at another player) is somewhere in the ball park of 72 units high but the player camera POV is actually much lower. It's kind of like your eyes are positioned around shoulder height.
This causes the problem of whether you want the map scale to be relative to the POV or to the size of other players.
The best you can do is sort of guess and stick to more or less commonly used heights and sizes used by other mappers. Ceiling heights are typically 128 to 256 units high. Hallway widths I usually stick with are 160 to 256 units wide.
The grid size, people use anywhere from the ballpark of 1GU = 1 inch to 8GU = 1 foot.
Most of the details of player physics (jump heights, etc) are described in the manual.
Thanks to everyone for the info! I certainly have a better sense of scale with radiant. It does seem Q3 uses a bit warped sense of measurement but I suppose it all factors in well for gameplay. I do hope Quake4 is a little more straight foward though.
Anwulf wrote:
pjw wrote:I used to have a gigantic text file with various cut-and-pasted tips and measurements and tricks and assorted crap for Q3, and I can't seem to find it and that annoys me.
Unless this was one of your own composition, the text file with the information about the size of the player and physics of the game was installed with q3radiant/gtkradiant. Can't remember the name of the document off the top of my head, but I think it might've been in the \Tools directory. I no longer have radiant installed so I can't simply look for it.
Ah that would of been sweet to use. I was looking in gtk radiant 1.4's folders but I dont appear to have it or cant find it.
Oh well, you guys suggested good size guidelines anyway..
Player is 56 units high - bounding box is 64 units - You can jump up to 64 units high
Ceiling heights are typically 128 to 256 units high
Hallway widths I usually stick with are 160 to 256 units wide
Max step height (stairs) = 18 units, and max climb-out height out of water is 16 units
nomadimage wrote:. I was looking in gtk radiant 1.4's folders but I dont appear to have it or cant find it.
Look in the folder again, there should be some subfolders with _manual in the name. Compile_manual contains bspc.txt with infos regarding player physics.
no you can't, not without RJ. the safest height for normal jump is 32, though i think the absolute maximum is a little higher
Yes you can. Try it yourself, make a box map and put a big 64*64*64 unit block in it. I betcha you can jump up there.(i tried this before posting :icon26: ) Trouble is, when your level get's more complex you will somehow lose a few units.
Actually, have a look under wherever bspc ends up being installed. I think the file was written by Mr Elusive. In fact, I think it might even be called bspc.txt, but don't quote me on that.
[EDIT]Ah, I see HrO's already mentioned bspc.txt.[/EDIT]
nomadimage wrote:. I was looking in gtk radiant 1.4's folders but I dont appear to have it or cant find it.
Look in the folder again, there should be some subfolders with _manual in the name. Compile_manual contains bspc.txt with infos regarding player physics.
Yep your right. Its in the 'complie_manual' folder/bspc.txt
It has a little section on 'Physics.' Interesting stuff.
no you can't, not without RJ. the safest height for normal jump is 32, though i think the absolute maximum is a little higher
Yes you can. Try it yourself, make a box map and put a big 64*64*64 unit block in it. I betcha you can jump up there.(i tried this before posting :icon26: ) Trouble is, when your level get's more complex you will somehow lose a few units.
you need 125fps to jump onto 64 unit heights, hence the loss of ability to do so on complex levels.
com_maxfps 125 and a fast video card (or leet configs) will do it every time.
junglist wrote:
you need 125fps to jump onto 64 unit heights, hence the loss of ability to do so on complex levels.
com_maxfps 125 and a fast video card (or leet configs) will do it every time.
That me dear is not entirely correct. I've seen it happen at higher FPS. I rather blame it on the tri-count. Running Q3 on current sys (amd64-3k+ x800pro) i haven't yet seen my q3 fps drop below 200 fps yet. But when mapping, i get the first reduction on lower fps.
ie. The capabilities of your GFX-card was once a long time ago indeed the bottleneck, nowadays it's the engine's cap that seems to do the trick.
redfella wrote:I am the undisputed master of scale. Rep said so.
I never trusted Rep the loudmouth so back under your rock is where you belong
(remembers some Q3W sigs: 'rep is a cunt')
anyway i guess you're right in that it needs "at least" 125.
either way, i wouldn't design anything where players must jump 64 units, but know that it's possible under the right conditions.
Ooohh you don't want to count the amount of 64 unit jumps in Quake3 standard maps. It just as any healthy gamer, you don't even try, miss the jump and your dead anyway you never design those jumps on purpose.
As a mapper you do a lot of testing w/o opponents, you get to jump and fool around (lol, call it debugging your map) and... sometimes stumble over weird behaviour of the engine.
Ohh and regarding me dear; My lord has lost his proper use of the noble English Language? (with a bit of a schottish accent)
anyway you never design those jumps on purpose.