no merge between X-battle and Q4Max

Post by **regurge** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:33 am

read the full story @ battle Site

http://www.xbattle.de/?action=news

Post by **Oeloe** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:43 pm

I think i saw this coming. So the mods will be competing... Hopefully it will be a friendly competition with significant sharing of content and some code perhaps.

Post by **Slasher** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:22 pm

Oeloe wrote:I think i saw this coming. So the mods will be competing... Hopefully it will be a friendly competition with significant sharing of content and some code perhaps.

lol =o

Post by **Oeloe** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:30 pm

OSP and CPMA shared lots of code too. X-Battle isn't being developed by Rhea but i don't see why the dev teams wouldn't share things like player models and perhaps some code for certain things later.

Post by **regurge** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:51 pm

Battle is really nice when you need something and ask in a friendly way

the last coder who got something was tigre from the baseft insta mod ... he had the permission to use the battle brightskins

Post by **Foo** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:22 pm

The announcement is a bit hypocritical. On one hand they go on about being insulted at being assigned a set of things to work on for Q4Max, and on the other hand they talk about another mod they've swallowed up in exactly the same manner.

Post by **wviperw** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:27 pm

Foo wrote:The announcement is a bit hypocritical. On one hand they go on about being insulted at being assigned a set of things to work on for Q4Max, and on the other hand they talk about another mod they've swallowed up in exactly the same manner.

Bingo! We have a winner.

Post by **hemostick** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:45 pm

Funny thing is that the first merger attempt was turned down because THEY (xbattle) wanted total control for themselves only, and not sharing equal lead developing responsabilities. They even went ahead and bought a domain name before we agreed to anything.

For the second attempt, the q4max leads told xbm "due to what happened last time we can't really let you have the über lead, especially with the positions now being taken and all. So, you can join as coders if you want, we're not renaming now or anything drastic though." - and I don't think we ever got an answer.

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:05 pm

Sounds like everyone's ego's are getting in the way of working together for the betterment of the community. Figures.

I really don't know why they need a lead programmer etc. Just make everyone equal and discuss what needs to be done, then as a group figure out who will work on what. I think those guys are getting too bent on who gets recognition, when in reality 99% of people don't really care who coded what.

Post by **TTK-Bandit** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:16 pm

Foo wrote:The announcement is a bit hypocritical. On one hand they go on about being insulted at being assigned a set of things to work on for Q4Max, and on the other hand they talk about another mod they've swallowed up in exactly the same manner.

what other mod did they swallow ? I can only see the merge with Q4PA (no swallowing)
read the news carefully before posting bullshit like that.
I have don't have any restrictions to developing the mod

Post by **Foo** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:23 pm

TTK-Bandit wrote:
Foo wrote:The announcement is a bit hypocritical. On one hand they go on about being insulted at being assigned a set of things to work on for Q4Max, and on the other hand they talk about another mod they've swallowed up in exactly the same manner.
what other mod did they swallow ? I can only see the merge with Q4PA (no swallowing)
read the news carefully before posting bullshit like that.
I have don't have any restrictions to developing the mod

Whatever man. You're just going to differ in opinion from what I differentiate as a merger and being swallowed up.

By your own criteria, you were sore about keeping the name Q4Max and not changing it, yet I dont see that same comment in the bit about Q4PA.

If you're gonna post politics on your site news you're gonna have to deal with people analysing it and drawing conclusions you might not like and reading inferences you didn't necessarily mean to infer.

Post by **wviperw** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:34 pm

TTK-Bandit wrote:
Foo wrote:The announcement is a bit hypocritical. On one hand they go on about being insulted at being assigned a set of things to work on for Q4Max, and on the other hand they talk about another mod they've swallowed up in exactly the same manner.
what other mod did they swallow ? I can only see the merge with Q4PA (no swallowing)
read the news carefully before posting bullshit like that.
I have don't have any restrictions to developing the mod

It really depends on how you define "merge" versus "takeover." According to the post on the XBM site posted above, unless I'm reading this wrong, the facts that 1) Q4Max wanted to bring on the XBM team as coders but not as project leads and 2) Q4Max wanted to keep their mod name; both of these facts imply "takeover." Yet, in the same news post, XBM "merges" with Q4PA yet keeps the XBM name and takes on the Q4PA team as mere members, not project leads. So, to me at least, you're doing the same exact 2 things that you were defining as "takeover" yet now you're calling it a "merger."

I may be way off though...

Post by **TTK-Bandit** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:43 pm

no
1. q4m wanted xbattle to send their code in snippets, so xbm wouldn'T have access to the code.
2. I have full control over the source.
3. I don't care about the name Q4PA, as many said, it's not very good.
Who cares about names ? its the mod, not the name what its about.
4. Well from what I've seen so far, I can tell, that there is no real leadership.. in xbattle everyone is equal.

I think a merge is when both teams get what they want.. that is the case in this merge.

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:04 pm

TTK-Bandit wrote: 1. q4m wanted xbattle to send their code in snippets, so xbm wouldn'T have access to the code.

wow really? gg arQon, so much for your ideas about sharing and working together. it is becomming even more clear now that your whole post about sharing content was just a means for your team to get their hands on whatever art they need. I don't get why all of the people out there can't just form 1 dev team and divy up the pieces to people. really the "lead" programmer should just be someone who makes everything fit together.

anyway the hypocrisy is retarded. don't post one thing then a few weeks later turn around and do exactly the opposite.

Post by **Oeloe** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:05 pm

hemostick wrote:Funny thing is that the first merger attempt was turned down because THEY (xbattle) wanted total control for themselves only, and not sharing equal lead developing responsabilities. They even went ahead and bought a domain name before we agreed to anything.

For the second attempt, the q4max leads told xbm "due to what happened last time we can't really let you have the über lead, especially with the positions now being taken and all. So, you can join as coders if you want, we're not renaming now or anything drastic though." - and I don't think we ever got an answer.

What domain name? Something other than xbattle.de which has been around forever?

Your story sounds like BS to me, but i can't say i really care about the exact things that were said; obviously both parties had their reservations in handing over control over the mod development, so they both continue on their own.

Post by **booker** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:44 pm

with the CPL using q4max it going to be on more servers.

Post by **hemostick** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:42 pm

Oeloe wrote:What domain name? Something other than xbattle.de which has been around forever?

Your story sounds like BS to me, but i can't say i really care about the exact things that were said; obviously both parties had their reservations in handing over control over the mod development, so they both continue on their own.

That domain name is http://www.x-mod.org and no, the story isn't bullshit, I'm in the q4m team so I should know. I'll keep the irc logs to myself though, the guys have other things to do than diving straight into this petty "war" and I've already said enough...

Post by **jester!** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:48 pm

No shit. I love how this stuff keeps getting aired in public and its just going to turn into a he said, no he said thing unless the irc logs are pasted straight into a news post or something.

I posted a nice blurb on esr but it boils down to the fact that its going to be euros with XBM, NA with Q4Max. And if both mods stick to keeping stock game play it wont fucking matter so all this shit disturbing is doing is kicking up some flames for the drama lovers and arQon haters.

Weak.

EDIT:

Ever wonder why their are so many linux distros? Probably because people have different opinions on how things should be, and there is no problem with that because a linux geek on slack, is going to be able to function if presented with gentoo, or redhat, or whatever. They are to much alike to break up the greater linux knowledge base and the same can be said of these two competative mods.

Q4Max was picked up by CPL. CPL handles hundreds of thousands of dollars. How would it look professionally for arQon, with an established presense and well known world wide, and Blowfish, who the CPL worked with before, to just start working in a nice cluster fuck with no lead, no direction, and no controls in a mod with just whoever? Real life doesnt work like that. Now Q4Max has shared shit, they have stuff being used in a mod that was on planetquakes front page so everyone quite crying about openness and sharing like a bunch of girls.

FFS this is annoying.

Post by **{uZa}FreakOfNature** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:57 pm

MidnightQ4 wrote:Sounds like everyone's ego's are getting in the way of working together for the betterment of the community. Figures.

And people wonder why the Quake coummunity has dwindled so much over the years? :icon23:

Post by **jester!** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:06 pm

1. Multiple competitors > How many ppl play UT200x, Cod 1/2, CS?

2. Raven brutally fisting this games release.

2a. Raven brutally fisting the response time to patch CRITICAL FLAWS like the broken auto download and server/client file mismatch kick. FIX IT FFS!!!

3. High system demands.

4. Community not being united?

1-3 are infinitly more responsible for the state of the game then 4 will ever be.

Post by **spookmineer** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:07 pm

I'm not for or against a merge of both teams. Both a merge, and developing 2 mods independantly from eachother, have positive and negative sides.

Either team will do a good job, but a merger could speed up things.

If they continue to work independantly there will be 2 mods to choose from. It will probably take a little bit more time until they are finished but there will be 2 mods (provided they will keep working on it, and not quitting halfway :/ ). One of the teams will have to adjust some goals, otherwise 1 mod would simply (basically) be a copy of the other, and no matter how much you would like to achieve the goal, a copy isn't something anyone should want.

So: 1 mod faster, or 2 different mods a little slower, I can't decide which is better...
Maybe once the mods are finished there will be some swapping in resources?
(If I'm mistaken I'm sorry)

Post by **{uZa}FreakOfNature** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:08 pm

jester! wrote:1. Multiple competitors > How many ppl play UT200x, Cod 1/2, CS?

2. Raven brutally fisting this games release.

2a. Raven brutally fisting the response time to patch CRITICAL FLAWS like the broken auto download and server/client file mismatch kick. FIX IT FFS!!!

3. High system demands.

4. Community not being united?

1-3 are infinitly more responsible for the state of the game then 4 will ever be.

I said nothing about Q4. I said The Quake Community in general.

Post by **jester!** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:18 pm

Same thing but even more so then.

Quake 1 players dont like Quake 2, or Quake 3, or Q4.
Quake 2 players dont like Quake 1, or Quake 3, or Q4.
Quake 3 players dont like Quake 1, or Quake 2, or Q4.

Quake 4 players want something more like Quake 3 for the most part, but also some of Quake 2, and some of Quake 1. :icon32:

As such the community is more and more fractured and divisive after every release of a game, in no small part because the devs want to appeal to the common pub player and those of us who have played for years are about as far from that demographic in a mentality sense as we can be.

The game id/Raven makes these days is not meant for us. Its mods like which take what the players actually want and turn the game given to us into something that can be played for years. Could the devs do this? Yeah, but they wont because it doesnt match what would sell and be immediatly fun for new players. As it is, the game is still similar enough that the veteran players run shit on any new players anyway as the thread by Krazy_K (?) has shown us.

But really the community in a most general sense is IMO fine. The ones who last have matured to the point where we know what we want, whats broken and what isnt and also how to fix it. Where would Q4 be if not for these mods with bright skins, custom maps like blip and phrantic, and the FPS tweaks from Dr4ch? Stuck jumping around of a dm17 remake.

Post by **R00k** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:22 am

Now I haven't been following this closely, but I think the driving force behind any decision to merge, should be based on the features of the mods. If both teams are planning on including a lot of the same features, then it would make sense for all involved to cooperate and not waste time/energy by duplicating work. If the mods are aiming for considerably different featuresets, then it would make total sense for them to remain separate and develop their own unique mod.

But from what I've read, it sounds like the decision to not cooperate was based on desires for certain roles or control over certain aspects, above others, and over who would get to do what - and not based on each mod's functionality. If that is the case, I think it is just plain sad. And yes, it is sort-of a microcosm of the Quake community -- most people in the Quake community are very opinionated about what they want, and a lot of people can't see that including a choice is better than excluding things that some people don't like. Which continually divides the community.

With that said, I've seen some amazing works come out of this community due to some great people collaborating and being a little selfless, and I believe that either way this pans out, we will have some great mods to play. :icon14:

Post by **prince1000** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 am

way to kill q4...pro this pro that... give us a break.