Q4 - Kat's Cradle - kat

[Kat]

With the release of the VIA map pack I can finally do the usual pimage here of Kat's Cradle (or "How not to build a tourney map"!).

As per usual it's a 'cave' map and surfaces are relative uneven so don't be expecting a smooth ride - the advantage of this is that it does test you're skills a bit more than usual (at least it does for me).

Uses custom models and textures all of which were modelled in Blender 3D - I'll be releasing the source files at some point soon for anyone interested in taking a look at te models in the raw.

Irony factoid - Despite the complants that generally surround Doom 3 / Quake 4 mapping regarding lighting being on the dark side, this map is actually brighter then kat1024, go figure! :icon25: Having said that though, lighting is a bitch :icon6:

Downloads
Direct download from VIAcga - download is c. 8MB
Mirrors will go up as and when so pop over to Kat's Cradle @ Quake3Bits for more info on that as it happens!

Screenshots
[lvlshot]http://www.quake3bits.com/images/maps/kat_q4dm1/quake_4_dm1_3.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.quake3bits.com/images/maps/kat_q4dm1/quake_4_dm1_1.jpg[/lvlshot]

[StormShadow]

Finally got a chance to play this one.. its gorgeous Lots of fun to bounce around in as well.. it would make a great FFA.

GJ!

[Jenny]

The person who reaches Railgun first would have great advantage. Not tourney map, possibly a FFA.

but WOW, so unique and good looking, excellent.

[Kat]

The person who reaches Railgun first would have great advantage. Not tourney map, possibly a FFA.

but WOW, so unique and good looking, excellent.

Yeah, I had a really hard time deciding whether to leave that in or not. In the end I left it in place in favour of it being in a relatively open area.

You're both right though, it's *really* a FFA map badly disguised as a tourney map! I just entered it to the comp for the hell of it

[QuakerX]

Love it. Very original. Going to play some games on this later after work...

[Method]

If there was a way to clip all those surfaces, so you can ramp jump everywhere the map will be very fast-like. Good job on the very unique map, Kat.

-Method

[Kat]

If there was a way to clip all those surfaces, so you can ramp jump everywhere the map will be very fast-like. Good job on the very unique map, Kat.

-Method

Oddly enough the map *was* heavily clipped originally but in doing that it revealed some really, really bad collision problems - Quake 4 simply doesn't like brushes being burried in models, for some reason it can't tell the difference between surfaces properly, so clipping a floor or wall will often have you dropping or passing through them. The only thing that seems to work is to leave as much as possible of the floor surfaces as unclipped models and then use 'flat' clipping along the walls.

I quizzed the Raven guys about this and was told they had similar problems and had to remove a lot of modelled areas becasue of it.

[Method]

On a side note, one of the first things I noticed when I begun building my map, was that unlike Doom 3, Quake 4 player model will stay on the clip brush. In Doom 3, the model actually touched the floor, even though it was covered with clip. I had to remove some clip brushes too, because the player appeared to be floating when I expected the model to touch the floor.

-Method

[seremtan]

that looks shit hot :icon14:

[Jenny]

Yeah, I had a really hard time deciding whether to leave that in or not. In the end I left it in place in favour of it being in a relatively open area.

Large open areas don't work as good as Q3. Mainly because of scaling.. slower rockets, shorter LG beam, overpowered RG(due to bigger hitboxes), nailgun has slow projectile speed and HB is weak(compared to Q3 plasma). Q4 is rail, rail, rail with a touch of mg/hb on such maps.

[+JuggerNaut+]

gorgeous

[Munsie]

Very nice looking, Two.. Radiant textures up.. Yea, similar to thumbs I suppose?

~Munsie

[Geit]

Looks absolutely amazing!

[Oeloe]

My A64 3200+ w. GF6800 GS drops to 53 fps in the most open area on this map. Perhaps you should have put those crevasse death traps near the railgun.

[jester!]

How about with vertex on Oeloe? P4 3gig 6600GT, locked at 63 with vertex.

[pjw]

One of the coolest Q4 maps I've seen yet. This has a really wonderful look to it, and the lighting is really nicely done. Gorgeous.

And yeah, I don't know if I would have left RG in, but...shrug. I might have, at that.

This is a keeper.

[Kat]

One of the coolest Q4 maps I've seen yet. This has a really wonderful look to it, and the lighting is really nicely done. Gorgeous.

And yeah, I don't know if I would have left RG in, but...shrug. I might have, at that.

This is a keeper.

Thanks pjw.

I can in all honesty say that a good 2/3rds of the time spent on the map build was *just* on the lighting. I think part of the problem there was me not planning the map properly in relation to the light volumes on such a 'soft' featured map - it makes hiding the volume bounderies tricky.

So generally speaking then is the railGun a more dominant weapon in Quake 4 than it was in Quake 3? I can't say I noticed myself when I was testing the map with some buddies but I'm not a 'railer'.

[Black_Dog]

On a side note, one of the first things I noticed when I begun building my map, was that unlike Doom 3, Quake 4 player model will stay on the clip brush. In Doom 3, the model actually touched the floor, even though it was covered with clip. I had to remove some clip brushes too, because the player appeared to be floating when I expected the model to touch the floor.

Doom 3 uses an IK solver to ensure that the player's feet will touch the "floor" (that is, anything solid to IK) regardless of the actual player entity position. Some of the clip types are not solid to IK, so the player can appear to pass through that clip and be standing properly on the floor.

Since in Quake 4 there is no use of IK the player will stand on clip brushes, and any difference between the visual and collision geometry will look wierd.

[wviperw]

So generally speaking then is the railGun a more dominant weapon in Quake 4 than it was in Quake 3? I can't say I noticed myself when I was testing the map with some buddies but I'm not a 'railer'.

Yes, very much so. The main reason is because hit boxes are bigger than in Q3 (plus the entire scale of Q4 is kinda screwy), so it is easier to hit your target. Add to this some of the maps that are played (e.g. - Lost Fleet) and it's not uncommon to hit 50-60% rail in a game. Lots of games are coming down to who has the better rail, which is just silly.

[Dr4ch]

Really outstanding but i really miss a waterfall

[Geit]

After trying it out, I can see how this wouldn't be a succesful Tourney map, but it looks breath-taking, absolutely great work on that and it works nicely as a FFA map.

[sock]

Awesome, looks breathtaking from the screenshots.
Good work kat

Sock

[Geit]

Awesome, looks breathtaking from the screenshots.
Good work kat

Sock

Hey Sock, you still here? :icon25:

[sock]

Hey Sock, you still here? :icon25:

Sometimes I stop playing WoW and surf forums, but most of the time Im lost in WoW.

Sock

[Kat]

most of the time Im lost in WoW...

'Oblivion' awaits