There are many things in maps that can be changed by creating a fix .pk3 that sits behind the original map's .pk3. If a mapper mis-types their .arena file for the map, you can fix it for an example. My question is whether a skybox be fixed somehow also?
List of maps WITH LINES in skybox:
aedesert aepyra alkdm12 alkdm13 alkdm14 alm3dm3 altarbeta ame7q3dm1 ame7q3dm3 aqua auh3dm2 Bal3dm2 Bal3dm3 Bal3dm4 batcula blpalace bubtny2 charon3dm10 cht1 cyb3tourney1 d3tourney3 dantesca dk_c dk_cotw dk_eotl dk_ft dk_ib dk_m dracula encrypt04 gc4dm1 geit3dm7 geit3dm8 geo-core handsofgod hrodm02 hub3aeroq3a ik3dm2 ikzdm1 jaxdm4_v21 jaxdm5 jaxdm10 jaxtourney3 jof3dm2 Jugulatordm2v2 kamq3dm2 kazdm1 kitdm8 klzegypt lastarena leaks2 lhdm1_nofog lloydmdm2 lsdm1 lsdm1_rspeed lsjg_coop lstourney3 Marsv1 mcbugzzq3dm7 mksteel mkvdv mono mountain64 mvdm07 Mw3Dm1 Mw3Tourney2 nemesis nook3dm2 nook3dm2pro ospdm1 PainFromSpain pjw3dm2 pjw3dm3_tourney platypus polo3dm4 pro-bgmp6 psidm7 q3diffdm1 q3dpduel q3jvx1 q3paint1 qfraggel3ffa qxdm3 qxtourney2 redq3dm4 reqkitchen rmtdm7 sainttourney1 sainttourney2 scandm1 seqdm1 shad3dm2 sil3tourney3 storm3tourney2 t3t4beta6 teqtrny3 tlq3dm1 TM4_Myth tonesoftwice twq3dm13 twq3tourney3 tymo3dm5 tymo3t2 tymo3t3 waxxgeo1 wolfenwinter wvwq3dm2 wvwq3dm4 wvwq3dm7 yog3dm6
List of maps WITHOUT LINES in skybox:
20kdm3 aadm1 addict aearcs aesculpt af3hex agr akom4_xp akom5 akom10_xp akumaq3dm8 alm3dm1 alm3dm4v2 ame7q3tny1 annoyance apocalyptic aps_dm4 arena66 area52 ariadecapo ASSault atatbase atomic auh3dm1 aveq3dm1 azazel bal3dm1 bap3dm2 baradur bbq3dm1 bdog3dm1 bemctype bemwoods bfgdm2a blackstar BODIES boombox bubdm1 bunker burning1 catCath chaosdungeons chaosdungeons2 charondm1 charon3dm2 charon3dm3 charon3dm4 charon3dm5 charon3dm7 charon3dm8 charon3dm9 charon3dm11v2 charon3dm666 chore_oko chronic cht3 cf ci CMP1-dm6 concrete corbe_q3dm1 cq3dm1 crystal csdmtourney1 cstourney2 cyhaz3dm3 d3dm3 d3dm4f dae3dm2 dae3dm3 DK_GBI dk_gc dk_geocomp4 dk_olar dk_se dk_tle dk_tyger dk7 dmmq3dm3 dmmtp dw_fb dw_qis ensptourney1 ermap3 esq3dm1 estatica exp13 fabtourney2 feldm1 ffdm2 fff Fjo3tourney2 FLWFW foo3dm1 foo3dm2 foo3dm3 fpstourny1 fr3dm1 fuktourney1 fusiondm03 galvanized geit3dm1 geit3dm3 geit3dm4 geit3dm6 geo28 ggrdm1_b1a gnc_garden guile09dm1 hell hobotourney1 hobotourney2 Hongx hope hrewtymp5 hymn ik3dm1 ishus jalt2bots japandm jaxdm3 jaxdm6 jaxdm7 jaxdm8 jaxdm9 jaxtourney1 jex3dm1 jher3t1 jk_tourney2 jntourney1 jof3dm1 jpdm1 jug3dm1 juzdm3 kamq3dm1 kaos katdm3 katdm5 kazdm3 keenq3dm1 kitdm5 kitdm6 kitdm10 klznureht kmltourney1 ktsdm3 ktsdm3-nofog lae3dm1 lae3dm2 lae3dm3 lhdm1 lsdm2 lstourney2 lun3dm1 lun3dm2 makumba maldm1 maxx mIKET2 mjkq3adm2 mjkq3adm3 mkexp mkfingers mkoxide monkshaven moses_dm6 moses_dm7 moses_dm9 moses_dm10 mrcq3t3 mrcq3t6 mrhdm5 mvdm02 mvdm04 mvdm06 mvdm07 mvdm08 mvdm09 mvdm10 myxomatosis NarShaddaa natedm1 ne_duel nedsword neotech nm3dm1 nodm11 obiq3dm1 ogdm onenightdm osiris ospdm5a ospdm6 ospdm7 ospdm8 ospdm12 ospdm13rc1 ospdm14rc1 ospdm15rc2 overkill pjw3dm1 pjw3radm1 pqarena predigate pro-q3tourney7 psidm9 purgatory q3diffdm2 q3finkodm6 q3hjdm1 q3hlvs01 q3macho4 q3macho5 q3monsto4 q3mrldm2 q3mrltourney1 q3ndm3 q3pacman q3paint3 q3rev q3Symbolic q3zdm1 q32thecore1 q32thecore5 qb3dm2 qfraggel1 quake3stuff quartzdm1 quash qw3dm1 qxdm4_v2 qxtourney1 r_tourney3i rcq3dm1 redq3dm7 reine13 req24 reqdm2 rfwq3dm1 rfwq3dm2 rjldm1 rjldm2 rjldm3 rocketarena rpg3dm1 rpg3dm2 rq3dm4 rq3dm5 s20dm4 sacdm1 safari saiko_tourney1a senndm1 senndm2 shad3dm1 shw_100b sic sin2 sith3tourney3 skull sorrow spacedm1 Srdm2 Srtourney1 SS7 stei_05_21 stei7a stei8a storm3dm1 storm3dm2 storm3tourney1 stormatordm1 t4tourney1 t8dm5 T8dm6 tekdm1 tep teqtrny1 teqtrny2 thunda3dm1 thunda3dm2 tig_den tig_one tig_out tm5_donkey tom_dm1 trajectory ts_dm4 ts_dm5tmp ts_t6 tscabdm3 twq3dm1 twq3dm2 twq3dm3 twq3dm4 twq3dm6 twq3dm9 unitooldm4 unitooldm5 unitooldm6 unlimited vq3_2k wdw3dm3 wdw3dm4 wvwq3dm1 yngtourney1 yog3dm1 yog3dm2 yog3dm4 yog3dm5 ztn3dm1 ztn3dm2 ztn3tourney1
The majority of these maps can be downloaded from LvL.
Huge Q3 Maplist of skybox's with lines and nolines
Judging by my "ae..." maps. The difference seems to be those that show lines use custom skybox textures (env), whereas those supposedly without lines use default Q3A retail skybox textures.
Just double-checked AEsculpt and AEarcs. Indeed they both use the "weird" cloud layer skyboxes that come with Q3A.
Just double-checked AEsculpt and AEarcs. Indeed they both use the "weird" cloud layer skyboxes that come with Q3A.
As far as I know, there would be no way to change that with a script. Using the normal skybox script puts lines in for Nvidia cards (or is it the ATI, can't remember). You can add an extra parameter (-skyfix ?) in there to remove it, but that seems to make lines in the ATI cards (or nVidia, which ever way around it is).
The only way I've heard of to get rid of lines for both cards is to use a portal sphere where you use a spherical model that's textured with your environment and place a _skybox entity inside it.
The only way I've heard of to get rid of lines for both cards is to use a portal sphere where you use a spherical model that's textured with your environment and place a _skybox entity inside it.
Like AEon says, mostly that list shows which maps are using environment cube style skies and which are using cloud-dome skies, not which have the bug and which don't. Any map compiled without -skyfix will have the bug, which is most env-cube skies.
Engine-generated env skies have lines on ATI cards because Q3 was set up to cope with a non-conformant (i.e. incorrect) OpenGL behaviour which was present in both major manufacturers drivers when Q3 shipped. When ATI fixed their drivers to actually comply with the OpenGL spec, skies started showing the lines on their cards. NVidia didn't fix it for ages but have now. -skyfix shouldn't show lines on either manufacturer's cards now.
What's really needed is an engine fix to amend the assumption that OpenGL would do it wrong, but that's not likely to happen officially. It's something to bear in mind if you're a coder making new stuff from the Q3 source.
Engine-generated env skies have lines on ATI cards because Q3 was set up to cope with a non-conformant (i.e. incorrect) OpenGL behaviour which was present in both major manufacturers drivers when Q3 shipped. When ATI fixed their drivers to actually comply with the OpenGL spec, skies started showing the lines on their cards. NVidia didn't fix it for ages but have now. -skyfix shouldn't show lines on either manufacturer's cards now.
What's really needed is an engine fix to amend the assumption that OpenGL would do it wrong, but that's not likely to happen officially. It's something to bear in mind if you're a coder making new stuff from the Q3 source.
Not true. It requires more than to just use -skyfix at compilation. There are several ways to cover the lines up (i've read about hexagonal skyboxes, the use of fog and extending the skybox textures a bit... i don't know any details though).Shallow wrote:-skyfix shouldn't show lines on either manufacturer's cards now.
What's really needed is an engine fix to amend the assumption that OpenGL would do it wrong, but that's not likely to happen officially. It's something to bear in mind if you're a coder making new stuff from the Q3 source.
About v1l3's list: you should have only listed maps that use a real cubic skybox and not the ones with a shader sky (moving clouds mostly). Only maps with a real static skybox can show skybox lines, which can be covered up with some tricks.
Last edited by Oeloe on Tue May 23, 2006 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I can add that the -skyfix compiles I have been using in all the recent maps, does actually improve the problem slightly.
I.e. without it I see black lines that cannot be overlooked at the edges of the env box. With -skyfix a pixel interpolation seems to be happening in real time. This indeed improves the situation, but since it also causes a distinct flickering (z-flighting?) you still notice those lines
I had read somewhere that if the pixels on all skybox texture edges actually share 1 exact same pixel line, thus the overlap is the same, the problem can be solved?
Never tried that though...
I.e. without it I see black lines that cannot be overlooked at the edges of the env box. With -skyfix a pixel interpolation seems to be happening in real time. This indeed improves the situation, but since it also causes a distinct flickering (z-flighting?) you still notice those lines
I had read somewhere that if the pixels on all skybox texture edges actually share 1 exact same pixel line, thus the overlap is the same, the problem can be solved?
Never tried that though...
Just tested this idea of texture edge overlap:
I used the small editor texture that represents my custom skyboxes as an env texture for all directions. As you can see the blue "conform" edges are the same blue. So that the ugly edges will not show in the map.
I do not know how much overlap is required though, to make this work. One pixel row would probably be nice. But would still mean some Photoshop work on the custom skyboxes. And I am not so sure what the skybox creators would think of that.
I used the small editor texture that represents my custom skyboxes as an env texture for all directions. As you can see the blue "conform" edges are the same blue. So that the ugly edges will not show in the map.
I do not know how much overlap is required though, to make this work. One pixel row would probably be nice. But would still mean some Photoshop work on the custom skyboxes. And I am not so sure what the skybox creators would think of that.
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foralarx2k3
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:56 pm
Vile,Oeloe wrote:nVidia already added a profile for some games, including quake3, so you might wanna try changing image quality to HQ there too. I'm not totally sure, but that could be the solution. I had to go through the same things when i installed my 6800GS. Disable 'Conformant texture clamp' too when you're there btw. No more skybox lines.
Do you have an nVidia card? If so have you tried the above suggestion from Oeloe taken from this "r_picmip issue" thread.
I have and it works for me ... I certainly don't see any lines in Bal3dm2, hubaeroq3, ik3dm2, jof3dm2, polo3dm4, t3t4bet6, tig_den, tymo3dm5.
Sorry if this is nothing to do with it.... I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to the finer arts of mapping.
Fora.
Hmm, i just found out that disabling conformant texture clamp actually doesn't fully remove the texture lines. With high fov values (130 and up) you can see the lines clearly when you look up or down at an angle of around 30 degrees or more. With my regular fov 113 i can see them too (i was testing in the map 'coldrun').
Also, icculus.org/quake3 doesn't seem to have any kind of fix for the skybox problem... I just downloaded and tested 1.34-rc1.
Also, icculus.org/quake3 doesn't seem to have any kind of fix for the skybox problem... I just downloaded and tested 1.34-rc1.
I have an ATI card.
Oeloe...
That's just the lists from my vQ3 maps folder. I figured I should put them up so those who do not see lines, will see what kind of skyboxes have lines pretty much. I made it for when I want to run a server that has maps without lines.
Minded...I haven't even went through my promode custom maps folder to distinguish which for which has them yet there. I think they are even worse off with lines.
Oeloe...
That's just the lists from my vQ3 maps folder. I figured I should put them up so those who do not see lines, will see what kind of skyboxes have lines pretty much. I made it for when I want to run a server that has maps without lines.
Minded...I haven't even went through my promode custom maps folder to distinguish which for which has them yet there. I think they are even worse off with lines.
I should mention that I don't have sky lines in _any_ map I've played @ my 6800GT or my previous FX5900 or the Ti4400...
Q3Map2 2516 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map_2.5.16_win32_x86.zip
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe
Q3Map2 FS_20g -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/q3map2_fs_20g.rar
GtkRadiant 140 -> http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/GtkRadiantSetup-1.4.0-Q3RTCWET.exe
There's the possibility that it's something with my setup (drivers, settings), but if you look carefully (try cg_fov 150 and look up) you'll probably see skybox lines. They're still not comparable to what you see on ATi cards though.Hipshot wrote:I should mention that I don't have sky lines in _any_ map I've played @ my 6800GT or my previous FX5900 or the Ti4400...
With fov 130 they're barely visible:
but when you look up (or down):
EDIT: Written before new Oeloe post :icon28:
Hmm, the last time I was able to test a skyfixed map on an ATI board, the fix worked, and the same map rendered fine on an GF3 Ti300 and an FX5900 as well. Consequently I mothballed a big sky-related article I was writing. But from what's being said it sounds like there's a new issue of some sort?
(Annoyingly, I had some shots I took that were originally to illustrate said article, but now I can't find them. Lax backup procedures before reinstall, meh)
Which reminds me, if you use a cube model and _skybox for the sky, don't spherify the cube - there's no benefit and it just makes the triangulation distort the textures. This is especially noticable on skies with well defined lines, like space skyboxes with planets on them.
Hmm, the last time I was able to test a skyfixed map on an ATI board, the fix worked, and the same map rendered fine on an GF3 Ti300 and an FX5900 as well. Consequently I mothballed a big sky-related article I was writing. But from what's being said it sounds like there's a new issue of some sort?
(Annoyingly, I had some shots I took that were originally to illustrate said article, but now I can't find them. Lax backup procedures before reinstall, meh)
It's a long standing issue that a sky freshly excreted from terragen doesn't match properly in Q3 without tweaking, and that article is older even than the "ATI bug". I'm pretty sure this needs to be done even if you use skyfix. It needs to be done to textures you plan to use to create an environment sky with a _skybox as well.AEon wrote:I do not know how much overlap is required though, to make this work. One pixel row would probably be nice. But would still mean some Photoshop work on the custom skyboxes. And I am not so sure what the skybox creators would think of that.
Which reminds me, if you use a cube model and _skybox for the sky, don't spherify the cube - there's no benefit and it just makes the triangulation distort the textures. This is especially noticable on skies with well defined lines, like space skyboxes with planets on them.
I found that if you didn't use a spherified cube then the perspective broke down as the player camera moved away from the origin. Spherifying the cube solves this issue.Shallow wrote:Which reminds me, if you use a cube model and _skybox for the sky, don't spherify the cube - there's no benefit and it just makes the triangulation distort the textures. This is especially noticable on skies with well defined lines, like space skyboxes with planets on them.
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CheapAlert
- Posts: 448
- Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:00 am
Very true. There has been alot of maps that used -skyfix and it didn't fix the problem whatsoever. I wonder if the still skybox wasn't a thought of problems in the making originally of q3a, since a moving sky is more realistic looking than a sitting still sky.Shallow wrote: I'm pretty sure this needs to be done even if you use skyfix.
The only other game I've seen that has lines in the skybox also, is Oni...
I think the problem is related to the Q3 renderer and hardware to new, I don't think it will ever be possible to adress it fully since it's a Q3 bug not a bsp or hardwarebug.
The new patch _should_ have adressed this :/ I hate to see my maps screened by someone having this problem and seems most people have it these days :(
The new patch _should_ have adressed this :/ I hate to see my maps screened by someone having this problem and seems most people have it these days :(
The skybox bug is not caused by Quake 3 (per se) but by differences in nVidia and ATI's drivers. These problems only crop up with (I thought) ATI cards because they stick to a certain standard in a technique used to render skyboxes like that. NVidia however, uses a slightly different method which fixes this problem.
I might not be 100% accurate with this, but the general idea is there.
I might not be 100% accurate with this, but the general idea is there.
I you'd have just read the post in the beginning... At some point nVidia just started using the OpenGL conformant way of texture clamping. I don't know if they did this after 1.32 was released or before, and whether ATi cards showed the skybox lines from the beginning. Fact is that q3dm10 is the only stock map where you can detect the skybox lines (although it's a starry night sky), so because it's only a real problem with custom maps id probably didn't put effort in fixing the bug.
From my Promode Custom Maps folder:
Maps WITH LINES-
acid3dm3 acid3dm3r charon3dm12 charon3dm13 cttourney1 desp-dm2 invertedpenguin lun3dm3 lun3dm3-cpm mvdm12 pjw3dm4 pjw3dm5 pjw3quickie5 pjw3tourney2 pjw3tourney4 plduel1 plduel2 plduel3 plduel4 pukka3dm1 pukka3dm2 pukka3tourney1 pukka3tourney2 pukka3tourney3 pukka3tourney4 rsptn_TDM01 sainttourney3 sokar3dm5 storm3tourney4 storm3tourney5 storm3tourney6 swarmdm2 ts_dm6 ts_pm2 uzul3 wvwq3dm3 wvwq3dm5 wvwq3dm5a
Maps WITHOUT LINES-
asnatourney1 bo3dm8a bubtny4 d3xf1 dAde_X devdm2 devdm3 drgcpm1f2f ek3dm1 el3t3 Fjo3tourney1 Fjo3tourney4 gc4_foo gm3tourney1 gm3tourney2 huan3cpm1 kazdm3 kitfinal ktsdm4 l3dm3 l3dm6 mictourney1a miiimiiic mrsdm1 mvdm11 mvdm14 necro1pe necro2 necro4 necro6 necro8 nodm6 nodm15 nodm19 pjw3dm6 pjw3tourney3 polo3dm3 polo3dm5 q3dAde4 q3dade8 q3dade10 q3dade12 q3dAde13 q3dade14 q3jdm9 q3shw12 q3shw16 q3shw17 q3shw19 qfraggel3ffa rdogdm2 rdogdm4 reqdm5 reqtourney1 sainttourney4 sgq3t1 sgq3t1a sgq3t2 swarmcpm1 tig_mouldy wvwq3dm6 x0r3 xdm4 xsdm1
-I've got even more maps than this...I can keep going if you guys like..
Maps WITH LINES-
acid3dm3 acid3dm3r charon3dm12 charon3dm13 cttourney1 desp-dm2 invertedpenguin lun3dm3 lun3dm3-cpm mvdm12 pjw3dm4 pjw3dm5 pjw3quickie5 pjw3tourney2 pjw3tourney4 plduel1 plduel2 plduel3 plduel4 pukka3dm1 pukka3dm2 pukka3tourney1 pukka3tourney2 pukka3tourney3 pukka3tourney4 rsptn_TDM01 sainttourney3 sokar3dm5 storm3tourney4 storm3tourney5 storm3tourney6 swarmdm2 ts_dm6 ts_pm2 uzul3 wvwq3dm3 wvwq3dm5 wvwq3dm5a
Maps WITHOUT LINES-
asnatourney1 bo3dm8a bubtny4 d3xf1 dAde_X devdm2 devdm3 drgcpm1f2f ek3dm1 el3t3 Fjo3tourney1 Fjo3tourney4 gc4_foo gm3tourney1 gm3tourney2 huan3cpm1 kazdm3 kitfinal ktsdm4 l3dm3 l3dm6 mictourney1a miiimiiic mrsdm1 mvdm11 mvdm14 necro1pe necro2 necro4 necro6 necro8 nodm6 nodm15 nodm19 pjw3dm6 pjw3tourney3 polo3dm3 polo3dm5 q3dAde4 q3dade8 q3dade10 q3dade12 q3dAde13 q3dade14 q3jdm9 q3shw12 q3shw16 q3shw17 q3shw19 qfraggel3ffa rdogdm2 rdogdm4 reqdm5 reqtourney1 sainttourney4 sgq3t1 sgq3t1a sgq3t2 swarmcpm1 tig_mouldy wvwq3dm6 x0r3 xdm4 xsdm1
-I've got even more maps than this...I can keep going if you guys like..