Hey looks like the pope was partially correct

Post by ek » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:48 am

i bet it was the jews

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:54 am

well when i read shit like this....

"you and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere. ... We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose head tax, then the only thing acceptable is a conversion (to Islam) or (killed by) the sword."

it kinda makes me wonder :icon26:

Post by ek » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am

its exactly the same kind of thing as bush co. have been spouting only reworded, so i dont really see where your amazement is coming from

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:33 am

okay,
link me the report/article where "bush and co" have said muslims either convert to Christianity or be killed?

edit: and i didn't say i was amazed (stop trying to put words into my mouth, thanks) i said it made me wonder.
as in: place in doubt or express doubtful speculation

Post by ek » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:37 am

same shit different smell, i said it has been reworded to push a different political agenda but still to rely on the "sword". liberating iraq LoL?

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:38 am

:icon26:

Post by ek » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:39 am

what i am not right? you cant see the parallel between the two? or you are willing to turn a blind eye?

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:43 am

i asked you.

busetibi wrote:okay,
link me the report/article where "bush and co" have said muslims either convert to Christianity or be killed?

did i ask you anything other than that?
please post the link.
thanks

Post by ek » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:50 am

i cant provide you with the link as there isnt one, since i said

ek wrote:its exactly the same kind of thing as bush co. have been spouting only reworded, so i dont really see where your amazement is coming from

notice the REWORDED

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:18 am

clearly there are violent Muslim extremists but how would our society react if for example they imprisoned 14000 Christians in secret jails without trials?

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:25 am

ek wrote:i cant provide you with the link as there isnt one,

didn't think so.
was it just another attemp to turn the thread to bush and co and deflect it from its original course?

see, now ive reworded your post :icon26:

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:05 pm

tnf wrote:
Turbine wrote:Christians are no different, what about all of the crusade wars?

And the little Pope living in his little city where he can pretend he matters.
Guess what, the dark ages are over, people VOTE now...
ahhh...the typical go-to of the crusades when it really doesn't apply to the situation at this time and when you probably don't even understand the entire situation behind the crusades (it wasn't just a one-sided deal...and no, I'm not covering for the Christians here, but I tire of people pulling the typical WHAT ABOUT THE CRUSADES? card everytime.)

So yea, Christians are very different in this day and age regarding this type of thing.

Christ that was a stupid statement.

not sure that i agree with you here.

Post by **S@M** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:09 pm

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:clearly there are violent Muslim extremists but how would our society react if for example they imprisoned 14000 Christians in secret jails without trials?

I gather you mean in western society because christians have and continue to be persecuted in many countries?

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:30 pm

The First Crusade was launched in 1095 by Pope Urban II to regain control of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Christian Holy Land from Muslims. What started as an appeal to the French knightly class quickly turned into a wholesale migration and conquest of territory outside of Europe. Both knights and peasants from many different nations of western Europe, with little central leadership, travelled over land and by sea towards Jerusalem and captured the city in July 1099, establishing the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the other Crusader states. Although these gains lasted for fewer than two hundred years, the First Crusade was a major turning point in the expansion of Western power, and was the only crusade — in contrast to the many that followed — to achieve its stated goal, which was possession of Jerusalem.

(from wiki)

see the parallels to today?

Post by **Agent-X** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:02 pm

The root cause of islamic outrage with the west no longer matters. That statement and others made before says it all. You can argue whos fault this is all day. The fact of the matter is that the terrorist end game is to conquer the world and conver t or kill all who oppose them. THis means you atheist also. So instead of railing on and on about why this is happening, what do you think should be done about it?

/not a bush supporter, hes a moron.
//So are liberals
///remember extremist of any kind ignore the logical steps in favor of thier own agenda.

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:11 pm

Agent-X wrote: The fact of the matter is that the terrorist end game is to conquer the world and conver t or kill all who oppose them.

///remember extremist of any kind ignore the logical steps in favor of thier own agenda.

yet which culture has armies occupying which lands?

i'd say we're the ones trying to conquer the world

Post by **Foo** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:27 pm

Post by **Agent-X** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:31 pm

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Agent-X wrote: The fact of the matter is that the terrorist end game is to conquer the world and conver t or kill all who oppose them.

///remember extremist of any kind ignore the logical steps in favor of thier own agenda.
yet which culture has armies occupying which lands?

i'd say we're the ones trying to conquer the world

See your ignoring the question. The fact again is unless bin laden releases a statement retracting what was put up by al-queda in iraq all your bitching about our culture taking over the wrold is moot. Do you think there is a way to negotiate out of this? Do you think it will matter if we pull all our troops/ businesses out of the middle east? I think were past the point of no return. Ive lurked here for a long time and alot of you have good ideas. But alot you mostly complain instead of offering something constructive.

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:36 pm

im not having a go/crack at you Agent-X, but simple spelling errors leave you wide open to attack

and lessen your argument.
sorry, but tis true.
the cunts in here will jump on it, regardless if English is not your first language

Post by **Agent-X** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:47 pm

No im just a shitty typist. And im not offering a argument im asking a simple question. If someone wants to improve thier self esteem by jumping on me go ahead. My ego is not affected by what someone on the interweb says. All im asking is what do people here think should be done about the problem at hand. Al-queda has made there goal clear. What is the solution? What would be your strategy? Its not an arguement, im not putting anyone elses opinion down. So dont be so offended.

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Agent-X wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Agent-X wrote: The fact of the matter is that the terrorist end game is to conquer the world and conver t or kill all who oppose them.

///remember extremist of any kind ignore the logical steps in favor of thier own agenda.
yet which culture has armies occupying which lands?

i'd say we're the ones trying to conquer the world
See your ignoring the question. The fact again is unless bin laden releases a statement retracting what was put up by al-queda in iraq all your bitching about our culture taking over the wrold is moot. Do you think there is a way to negotiate out of this? Do you think it will matter if we pull all our troops/ businesses out of the middle east? I think were past the point of no return. Ive lurked here for a long time and alot of you have good ideas. But alot you mostly complain instead of offering something constructive.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/19/binlad ... index.html

Bin Laden also offered a possible "solution" -- only to dismiss it because he said the Bush administration would never go for it.

"In response to the substance of the polls in the U.S., which indicate that Americans do not want to fight Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their land, we do not mind offering a long-term truce based on just conditions that we will stick to.

"We are a nation that God banned from lying and stabbing others in the back. Hence, both parties of the truce will enjoy stability and security to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan, which were destroyed by war.

"There is no problem in this solution, but it will prevent hundreds of billions from going to influential people and warlords in America -- those who supported Bush's electoral campaign. And from this, we can understand Bush and his gang's insistence on continuing the war," bin Laden said.

agent x, you aren't paying close enough attention imo

edit: just to be clear, yes i think there is a way to negotiate and yes I believe pulling troops out would make a difference. This is not the only time bin laden has spoken of a truce.

Post by **MKJ** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:54 pm

whoa, blast from the past

Post by **busetibi** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:56 pm

Agent-X wrote:No im just a shitty typist. And im not offering a argument im asking a simple question. If someone wants to improve thier self esteem by jumping on me go ahead. My ego is not affected by what someone on the interweb says.

sweet

Post by **Ryoki** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:05 pm

Agent-X wrote:The fact of the matter is that the terrorist end game is to conquer the world and conver t or kill all who oppose them. THis means you atheist also. So instead of railing on and on about why this is happening, what do you think should be done about it?

/not a bush supporter, hes a moron.
//So are liberals
///remember extremist of any kind ignore the logical steps in favor of thier own agenda.

I don't agree with that. I've always seen the whole radical Islamist movement as a nationalist movement as much as it is a religious movement. As in, the religion is probably more a way to rally the masses behind their cause than it is the very essence of their cause.

Personally i think that if you take away all the injustice we put them through, if you treat them fairly and if you stop sponsoring their dictators, you take away the major reasons for them to blow themselves up in our subways.

It seems to me like you're buying into the 'they hate us for our freedoms' bit, and that's far too short sighted.

Post by **Agent-X** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:05 pm

I know about the truce offer. Do you really believe it was sincere? I myself have considered what would happen if someone tried to reason with al-queda. Could a truce that would benefit both parties be agreed upon. Probably not because of the existence of israel. Maybe in the future though. I bet at the beginning of the cold war no one thought there would be any end but through conflict. Also bin ladens talking about polls. Thats a laugh. Tell me you dont believe every poll that comes out? Americans(well the american middle class) will not care about any of this until it is at home, that is true. But to trust bin laden on an offer of truce...I dont think so. Although if I were Bush I would have asked what those "just conditions" would be. Maybe that would of been a first step.