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Topic Starter Topic: CTF-1on1 Mappack
a13n
Beggar@Q3W
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 06:53 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hi, there.

Currently I'm planing to organize a q3 mappack.
The maps are only made of CTF-1on1.
So it will be named q3wtfduelctf mappack.
Nowadays q3 players are fewer, so I decided to adapt to the situation.

I've created 3 maps so far and will make a few more.
On the other hand I want to add some maps by other mappers as a spice.
If you're intrigued, please reply to this thread.
You can submit more than one map.
Bot file must be included.
Deadline is May 1 2007.

Dedicated screenshots thread (locked)

Current Mapper List
a13n (5+) ctf-1on1-bank, ctf-1on1-gr8, ctf-1on1-just, ctf-1on1-orbb, ctf-1on1-matrix
dichtfux(timed out)
Pext (1+)
pjw (1+)
squirell man(2+)

LEFT2GO(4)




Last edited by a13n on 04-19-2007 01:12 AM, edited 12 times in total.
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Pext
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 07:08 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sounds awesome. i'll start working a bit on this thing once i finish my exams.
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pjw
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 07:48 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Hmmn.

I thought I was done with Q3 mapping, but I find myself tempted...I may have to give this a try.

Cool idea. :)
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dichtfux
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 09:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Never played 1vs1 CTF tbh.

Could someone name a few good maps so I can give it a try?

I'll browse lvl a bit in the meantime, maybe I'll come across one...



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obsidian
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 11:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a13n wrote:
Ideally the number of map should reach 20.


Sounds interesting, but that's a lot of maps for a map pack. Surely these will be small maps but unless you limit custom assets (like textures, etc) the final download size might still end up pretty high.

So either limit texture usage or less maps, maybe?.



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a13n
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 02:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@ditchtfux
Here is one of my maps.
http://files.filefront.com/ctf_1on1_jus ... einfo.html

@obsidian
Thank you for your suggestion.
I never thought of the size.

O.K.
Let's just say total map count is limited to 13.
And each pk3 should be no more than 5 MB in size.




Last edited by a13n on 03-24-2007 04:54 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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spookmineer
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 03:41 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've been playing a lot of 1-1 CTF on default and custom maps, meant for 5 vs 5 gameplay (game: Elite Force, Q3 engined).

EF also faces a decreasing community. Someone has been porting some Q3 maps to this game (don't worry, all with consent of the original mappers).
However this only works when custom textures are used (intellectual property issue).
It would be very nice if some maps are done with custom textures, you could make 1 map for 2 games :)
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a13n
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PostPosted: 03-22-2007 07:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@spookmineer
That's a good idea.
But main focus of this mappack is CTF-1on1 & q3.

My next mappack project would be a multi-gamepack mappack which would support 3 versions, q3wolf, raven(ef, jk2 & sof2) and all.
It would be held once this mappack has been released.
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dichtfux
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 08:47 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Am I mistaken or are the layouts of 2 of the 3 maps in the (closed) screenshot thread really a circle and an '8'?

No offense but isn't that complete nonsense? Seems to much as if gameplay was like throwing a 50/50-dice on whether you'll meet your enemy or not.



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pjw
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 10:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Well...that's kind of a tough one. Basically, the choices are:

1. One way from flag to flag. This ensures that there will always be a shootout in the middle, and leaves no room whatsoever for any sort of sneakiness or avoidance or whatever.

2. Two or more ways from flag to flag. This ensures that there's a possibility of never encountering your opponent during a capture.

In a way, both options suck. :)

I think the elegent way to approach the problem is to have levels that are small enough so there are views of the alternate routes from one another. This allows the players to at least be able to see one another (and, at that point, quickly decide if it would be wiser to try for your own capture, or head your opponent off instead).
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dichtfux
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 10:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah, seeing each other may be an improvement, that's one thing I had expected.

But when I heard of 1vs1-CTF I imagined somehting like two paths next to each other with (intersecting) variable height levels or something ilke that...



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dichtfux
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 11:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just gave your map a try q13n, and though it looks good I must admit that I got bored after playing it for <5 minutes againts (strafe-jumping) CPM bots.

Imo it's useless to play the map against bots in vq3 because they don't strafe and don't stand a chance therefore. In CPM they cross the map in very few seconds (as the human player does) and gameplay gets rather confusing.

Didn't find something interesting at lvl, and I'm having a hard time thinking of a good layout for a 1vs1-CTF map...

This is definetely a challenge, please sign me up for 1 map.

How much time do we have?



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spookmineer
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 03:34 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


There is no reason to make a 1-1 CTF map this small and/or simple. Even with default 5-5 maps, action is fast and you have to outsmart your opponent.
Simple maps like this don't have interesting gameplay.

Maybe 5-5 CTF maps aren't so bad to play 1-1 :/

1-1 should be somewhat smaller then most 5-5 maps, but with the same "complexity" in order to keep gameplay interesting. Are there possibilities to perform so called trickjumps, is it possible to outsmart an opponent? A player should not be able to see the opponent all the time, or pretty much know where they are because of map layout simplicity. It will just turn out to be a duel map: the best fragger wins, and this is not necessarily true for good CTF maps.
Some architecture that "blocks" the view makes it more interesting as well.
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a13n
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PostPosted: 03-23-2007 06:26 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@dichtfx
Quote:
as if gameplay was like throwing a 50/50-dice on whether you'll meet your enemy or not.

Right.
But there seems to be a few things that the screenshots do not show you.
1. There is an important item(mega health) at mid point, so poeple are more likely to meet there.
2. These maps are so small that players can run through the whole level within 10 secs at most.

Quote:
But when I heard of 1vs1-CTF I imagined somehting like two paths next to each other with (intersecting) variable height levels or something ilke that...

That's the one you should make. :)
Think of my maps as intro or intermission.
Everyone can also make that kind of map, though.
In that case this mappack may be called WTF-1on1-CTF Mappack.(courtesy of berneyboy)
Current deadline is May 1.

@pjw
As I mentioned above, my maps are pretty small.

@spookmineer
You have good theory.
You should make one. :)

@everyone
What do you think about the bsp name?
Are you all O.K. with "ctf-1on1-blah"?
Or do you prefer "ctf-1on1-NN" as such?
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^misantropia^
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PostPosted: 03-24-2007 12:29 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


ctf-1on1-NN -- it means you won't have to look up the map name in the menu or the PK3.
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Oeloe
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PostPosted: 03-24-2007 03:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Interesting. :) I've played quite a lot of 1v1 CTF games on q3ctf1, which I think is a good example of a map suitable for 1v1 (even 2v2 or 3v3). It would probably be best anyway to aim at making maps that are suitable for 2-6 players instead of just 2.

Suggestion for another mapname prefix: ctfduelNN (easier typing without the hyphens :) ).

I hope you don't get any spacemap entries for your your mappack, or it has to be something very original/playable...
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a13n
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PostPosted: 03-24-2007 04:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thank you, ^misantropia^ and Oeloe for your contributions.
Current nomination in mind would be (q3w)ctfduelNN.

@mappers
Please name your bsp and arena file as you want.
I'll rename each file when packing.
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squirell man
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PostPosted: 03-24-2007 10:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hay I made 2 different small ctf maps for you, but my LAN is STILL down and I'll post them ASAP.

and NO they are not "figure 8s"!
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a13n
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PostPosted: 03-24-2007 05:43 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


O.K.
squirell man qued.

@mappers
What do you think about spawn points?
Red player should spawn just next to blue flag instead of red flag?
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squirell man
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PostPosted: 03-25-2007 03:16 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


intresting... i thought of that... but then decided not too. It would be like a "kill the other player, then return your flag and score situation." it would be good on some maps.
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squirell man
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PostPosted: 03-26-2007 12:42 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i wrote the files to a CD, tell me what you think

map names:
thmap1 - Citadel of Fire and Ice
thmap2 - Dueling Courtyards

bot files (.aas): yes
levelshots: yes (but I suck at taking them, so you CAN redo it)
.arena files: yes
.map files: yes

here we go!

Download thmappack-ctf1v1.pk3

yes, maybe I may make another.
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pjw
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PostPosted: 03-31-2007 09:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just to let you know...I haven't forgotten about this. I decided to rework one of my old "quickie" maps and dupe/mirror it into a little CTF map. I started on it this evening, and it will likely be done soon (within a week, anyway). :)

Who knows, I might even do another one...
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a13n
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 01:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@squirell man
Your maps are currenlty disqualified due to the excessive overdraw.
Please check the visibility.

@pjw
I'm glad to know you're still alive on this.

@mappers
Quickies are O.K. as long as...

1. There are no technical erros.
2. Playable
3. Appealing at some point
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+JuggerNaut+
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 03:23 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a13n wrote:
@mappers
Quickies are O.K. as long as...

1. There are no technical erros.
2. Playable
3. Appealing at some point


ya think? :icon27:
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squirell man
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 12:24 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a13n wrote:
@squirell man
Your maps are currenlty disqualified due to the excessive overdraw.
Please check the visibility.

@pjw
I'm glad to know you're still alive on this.

@mappers
Quickies are O.K. as long as...

1. There are no technical erros.
2. Playable
3. Appealing at some point


overdraw? like no caulk? yeah on the dueling courtyards I ran out of time cuz I had to go on vacation, there was a comp. but no q3radiant, *sob*
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pjw
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 01:27 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


squirell man wrote:
a13n wrote:
@squirell man
Your maps are currenlty disqualified due to the excessive overdraw.
Please check the visibility.


overdraw? like no caulk? yeah on the dueling courtyards I ran out of time cuz I had to go on vacation, there was a comp. but no q3radiant, *sob*


I took a quick look, and I'm pretty sure what a13n is talking about is that there's a lot of both maps being drawn even when those parts are way out of your view and around corners and suchlike. (You can check this with r_showtris 1 at the console, just in case you don't know...)

Looks like you could probably use hint brushes to at least improve this a bit. On the one hand, it's not the end of the world because (a) they're small levels, and (b) it's only two people playing, but I suspect (he says cautiously) that you could improve the overdraw a lot with some really basic hinting in just a few minutes. I'd have to look at the .maps to be sure, of course...

You should probably also make many of the small details (e.g. the bits under the flags in at least one map) detail (if you haven't already) and non-solid, or at least clip them off to lose the bouncy-ness when you move over them.

Fun little maps. :)
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Kaz
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 02:25 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I thought I remembered launching a failed compilation pack similar to this awhile ago....

http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/028274.html

heh :)
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SonicClang
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 02:28 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah dude pjw, go for it. Your levels rock and Quake 3 is still one of the most fun games out there. I'd really love to see you make a CTF level pjw. You said you wanted to make one after that LAN party a while back. You should!



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pjw
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 03:33 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Just as a side note, after not mapping Q3 for a long time, I installed radiant 1.4 and noticed that the surface inspector is broken (doesn't properly "fit" on both axes), and then when I said "screw this" and uninstalled and d/led 1.5, it doesn't include mapmedia.pk3, so none of the common texs show up.

Weak sauce.

I'm now redownloading and installing 1.4, so I can grab mapmedia.pk3, move it to where it should be for 1.5 to find, and then uninstalling it again.

My mapping day:

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+JuggerNaut+
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 03:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


:olo:
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SonicClang
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PostPosted: 04-01-2007 05:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's great man. Like LOTR.
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maz0r
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PostPosted: 04-02-2007 12:43 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Didn't the mapmedia.pk3 come with the game pak you have to download from the radiant site when mapping for q3?

Quick Link
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a13n
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PostPosted: 04-02-2007 06:11 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


@+JuggerNaut+
Actually pjw has already meet the 3rd condition in that he has his "brand name" in this community.
So if pjw submits the exact same map with squirell man's, his map will not be disqualified.
Unfair but true.

After all the ideal target of this mappack is to build its own new brand by new generations which destroys or exceeds the old one, though.

@squirell man
squirell man wrote:
cuz I had to go on vacation

If you don't have time anymore and don't mind to give me your map sources, I'll "remix" your maps and release them instead.
Just a thought.

@Kaz
Gut.
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pjw
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PostPosted: 04-02-2007 07:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a13n wrote:
@+JuggerNaut+
Actually pjw has already meet the 3rd condition in that he has his "brand name" in this community.
So if pjw submits the exact same map with squirell man's, his map will not be disqualified.
Unfair but true.


"Known" mappers should, if anything, be held to a higher standard than new mappers.

In addition, free rides are for people who need them; I'm not in need.

Just sayin'. :)
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squirell man
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PostPosted: 04-02-2007 11:02 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


to tell you guys all the truth, the farthest information I ever got to about hinting was the 2 sentences in the q3rad manual.

Now how would you exactly use it? ive seen it done, but dont know where and why to use it.
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