*nerd rage

[xer0s]

I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're saying they want something new, but as long as it follows a winning formula and offers something additional. They want their games to progress beyond that which has been done before, as long as it has the same features as games they're most fond of. They don't want a game with vehicles, because Halo already did it. Open worlds? GTA did it. Set in a wasteland? Fallout did it. Hallways and interiors? Done to death. Outdoors? Boring! Pressing "Use" to interact with objects in the world? Please. They don't want a game with shotguns, because Doom already did it..even before Deus Ex had them. They want games with weapon mods, like Mass Effect, but they don't want it to have been done before in any game...like Deus Ex...because it's not fresh. They don't want games with circle strafe because it's been done to death, but since circle strafe is a fundamental movement mechanic/tactic, they'll say that people are missing the point, that it has something to do with "substance" that you'll find in Deus Ex or another game of a completely different genre and completely different feature set from the action game that they're complaining about. And by golly they'll feel vindicated if some guy named Jonathan D Deesing has the same complaints about it! It has to be fresh!

But hey, innovation isn't the be all and end all for them.

Back to the car analogy. Yes, maybe you've drove a car with powered windows, leather seats, cup holders, gps, and auto parallel park. Been there done that. But would you want to go back to driving the Model-T? Or drive the 2011 model with all the bells and whistles and maybe even a new feature or two?

[Foo]

Back to the car analogy. Yes, maybe you've drove a car with powered windows, leather seats, cup holders, gps, and auto parallel park. Been there done that. But would you want to go back to driving the Model-T? Or drive the 2011 model with all the bells and whistles and maybe even a new feature or two?

No but you'd certainly take a good look at any new car designed by the same team that designed such a classic.

The problem with that, in this case, is that the team just doesn't exist any more. A team is just a collection of individuals, and the individuals responsible for making the classic id games aren't part of the team anymore. id are trading purely on brand capital right now, and have been doing so for over a decade (IMO), since that's the last time they made a game of any significant note.

Take note of the key members of id software that were responsible for various aspects of the success of their games:

Paul Jacquays - Pretty key in the online success of Quake 3, especially in growing the big level design community.
John Romero - Arguably responsible for the run-and-gun mindless shooter style that defines id games. Left id after Quake 1 release.
Sandy Peterson - That tech/gothic style that's unique to id? Mostly Sandy's doing. Left id software midway through Quake 2 development.
Tom Hall - Responsible for ids fast-paced gameplay style alongside Romero. Went on to develop Rise Of The Triads and you can see the elements of gameplay that he consistently applied to both DooM and ROTT.
American McGee - Left after Quake 2, and a lot of id's characteristic SP level design style left with him.
John Carmack - Still there. Still responsible for ids engine technology. Pretty much all that's left in terms of ids key capabilities.

Note that this is a case of the Triggers Broom paradox (imo more of a fallacy)

[Yeahso]

I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're pretending how refreshing and nouveaux it is to just have a game where you don't have to think, as if all current FPS games require a masters in neuroscience to play.

You're so stuck up in your self-righteousness, aren't you?
It's not refreshing or "nouveaux", it's just that the "run-and-gun" type of gameplay didn't suddenly just become obsolete because games with more complex gameplay exist. If you're bored with that kind of thing, fine, but it doesn't mean Rage will be a bad game. Judge it on it's own merits and don't compare it to Deus Ex, because they are aiming at completely different experiences.

Hmm, I don't really think you understand what self-righteousness means. Also, in the article they're saying that it's a bad game, as in, it's been established by someone that's played it.

[Yeahso]

I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're saying they want something new, but as long as it follows a winning formula and offers something additional. They want their games to progress beyond that which has been done before, as long as it has the same features as games they're most fond of. They don't want a game with vehicles, because Halo already did it. Open worlds? GTA did it. Set in a wasteland? Fallout did it. Hallways and interiors? Done to death. Outdoors? Boring! Pressing "Use" to interact with objects in the world? Please. They don't want a game with shotguns, because Doom already did it..even before Deus Ex had them. They want games with weapon mods, like Mass Effect, but they don't want it to have been done before in any game...like Deus Ex...because it's not fresh. They don't want games with circle strafe because it's been done to death, but since circle strafe is a fundamental movement mechanic/tactic, they'll say that people are missing the point, that it has something to do with "substance" that you'll find in Deus Ex or another game of a completely different genre and completely different feature set from the action game that they're complaining about. And by golly they'll feel vindicated if some guy named Jonathan D Deesing has the same complaints about it! It has to be fresh!

But hey, innovation isn't the be all and end all for them.

Raging over Rage.

[Yeahso]

I am not twisting words.

You don't seem to realize that I have no horse in this race whatsoever, and I have done nothing beyond making fun of the petty complaints about the game that you and others have made and in particular I'm making fun of the mental gymnastics you guys have been using to justify your opinions when others point out the fucked up logic in your arguments. If your reasons made sense, didn't contradict themselves or didn't seem petty, I wouldn't be mocking you. I am also making fun of people doing the same thing in the Portal 2 thread. And I'm not twisting words there, either.

...it looks like it'll be a typical id shooter (which isn't a bad thing)

Really? Then why spend so much time and effort saying that it is?

As a developer, reading the 7 pages of this mindless shit reminds me that there are alot of fickle gamers out there and no matter what we make or offer in terms of features that someone, somewhere will come up with dumb excuses to bash it. You are openly admitting that Rage offers much more than a typical id Software game, yet still cling to your childish approach/excuses to bash it anyways. After several posts of "I want something new" you then comment that innovation isn't really the point, and that somehow I don't get your point.

No shit, Sherlock.

Yes...we get that Rage doesn't interest you as much as other games.

I am only judging you on this thread, but you seem like a massive dick.

[Peenyuh]

Shut up! He's a great guy... and his cock is 2/3 of an inch bigger than mine! Douchewaffle!

[GONNAFISTYA]

...

Raging over Rage.

...

I am only judging you on this thread, but you seem like a massive dick.

I'm quite aware that your ego wouldh't allow you to let this go. You've done the classic move of running out of breathing room in your arguments to simply calling me an angry dick.

If it allows you to masturbate with a clearer head, it's perfectly fine for you to assume that I'm angry about all this as my motivation to point out your retarded logic.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Back to the car analogy. Yes, maybe you've drove a car with powered windows, leather seats, cup holders, gps, and auto parallel park. Been there done that. But would you want to go back to driving the Model-T? Or drive the 2011 model with all the bells and whistles and maybe even a new feature or two?

lol

I guess you haven't noticed that Rage is the 2011 model with "more" bells and whistles and maybe a new feature or two?

BTW...I took your advice and saw that movie "Hall Pass". It sucked.

[brisk]

I'm quite aware that your ego wouldh't allow you to let this go. You've done the classic move of running out of breathing room in your arguments to simply calling me an angry dick.

Funny, that's exactly how i'd describe your first reply to me

You even admitted it yourself

I know...I'm just being a prick.

What exactly is your point in this thread? You're moaning at us, calling us retards for "not getting it" and saying our logic is fucked up. I think i've explained my viewpoint on it quite clearly here and so has Yeahso. You go from saying consumers should bitch and moan to publishers to force industry change and then proceed to call us "spoilt brats" when we do. The fact that what we said is pretty much word-for-word regurgitated in that Joystiq preview means that our impressions of the trailer and the current state of id as a game developer isn't completely wide of the mark. He has actually played the game too, so his opinion carries a little more weight.

And yeah, I have no idea why i'm wasting time and energy writing in a thread about a game I have no intention to buy, but it's a discussion forum for video games, which by it's very nature is a complete waste of time anyway. Just because this is a Quake forum, it doesn't mean that id should be exempt from criticism. Just read any site that published the recent Dead City trailer and you'll see countless other people saying exactly the same thing.

But hey, I guess we're all retards aren't we?

[GONNAFISTYA]

I think you answered your own question addressed to me.

I admitted to being a prick because it's hilarious to poke fun at people who want a red one, no a green one, no a red one, no a green one. Ok I'll take blue, no red, no green. That is why I mentioned focus groups and how they don't seem to know what they want.

To your point about me saying that "consumers should bitch and moan to publishers to force industry change" I am in compete agreement. However, you have been inconsistent and petty in your complaints and are instead complaining for the sake of complaining, so how should publishers take your criticisms and apply them? I am in compete suppport of a coherant argument, but you have not offered one.

[brisk]

Eh? I think i've been pretty clear about what I want from a video game. Shit, i've repeated myself so many times in this thread that i'm beginning to bore even myself.

My criticism is with id effectively using a 20 year old template and offering very little to the table to tempt gamers to buy their new title in 2011. They offer absolutely nothing to seperate it from the myriad of other FPS' released in the past decade and are instead using excuses like "If you add game variations just to add game variations it confuses people" which is marketing bullshit for "i'm a lazy cunt who would rather just stick to the old formula because it worked for us in the past and is less risky". COD is the absolute master of this.

So what should publishers do? Stop financing games that are basically regurgitations of games released decades ago and reward developers to be more creative. That quote above only goes to prove that developers and/or publishers are still treating their users with the lowest common denominator attitude and are happy to forego any kind of creative risk to meet the "this worked for them, it can work for us" attitude of game design. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

And this doesn't even necessarily have to do with innovation. Just steal from other games if you have to and mold them together into something we've never tried before. But if you are going to steal, then at least offer more than the other games in question, not less. Rage is effectively Borderlands without the RPG elements or Fallout without the freedom/quests/interaction/non-linear gameplay etc.. but is stylistically and aesthetically near-identical. Whether they like it or not, consumers are going to judge Rage against these titles and they're going to be pissed when they find out it offers a shallower, less involved experience. And mark my words, when the reviews start coming in, they'll be the obvious comparisons and the score will suffer as a result. Shit, if previews for the game are already ripping it (and these generally focus on the positive aspects of the game, almost without exception), imagine how the final reviews will be...

[Yeahso]

[

I am only judging you on this thread, but you seem like a massive dick.

I'm quite aware that your ego wouldh't allow you to let this go. You've done the classic move of running out of breathing room in your arguments to simply calling me an angry dick.

If it allows you to masturbate with a clearer head, it's perfectly fine for you to assume that I'm angry about all this as my motivation to point out your retarded logic.

lol, dude, I honestly couldn't give a shit. It's just a computer game. You just seem like a really serious, angry guy, that's all.

[xer0s]

I and others have been saying that for years...

[GONNAFISTYA]

You just seem like a really serious, angry guy, that's all.

lol ok

This coming from a guy who brags about slapping women in bars.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I and others have been saying that for years...

And you've been wrong for years...

[Yeahso]

You just seem like a really serious, angry guy, that's all.

lol ok

This coming from a guy who brags about slapping women in bars.

Oh, you mean 7 years ago?

What's funny is that I don't even know what you're talking about, I only know it was at least that long ago because that's the last time I was in a bar. But you used something that happened almost a decade ago as a way to gain the upper hand in a computer game argument? Fuck man, you have got to realise how weak and pathetic that sounds from my point of view, surely?

I feel it's worth mentioning that I'm not that person any more. I was living a very negative existence back then, one might even say a scummy existence. I'm quite ashamed of the way I used to be in my life, and it comes from a hard childhood and a lot of bad mistakes. What's important is that I noticed these mistakes some years ago while I wasn't too old, addressed them, and as a result, my attitude has improved dramatically.

Once you've learnt to enjoy happiness, you get quite creeped out by people who're so angry all the time. You've got so much negative energy built up that you look for any opportunity to offload it onto other people. I used to be like you, so I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out that you don't seem very happy in your life.

Of course you'll tell me that you are, but happy people don't really care about things like this as much as you do.

Have a good weekend dude.

[Yeahso]

Oh, the reaosn why I don't know what you're talking about is not because it's insignificant, but because the amount of fights I was having in that period are just one large blur.

I don't want you to think I'm not digusted at the prospect that I may, as you claim, have struck a female.

Though I would imagine that I had been hit first or provoked to do it, I would never, in my darkest days, have visited aggression towards a female unprovoked.

I also imagine the "bragging" is pure fiction dreamt up by you to give you a bit of leverage in this debate about an unreleased computer game.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I really touched a nerve.

Oh, you mean 7 years ago? But you used something that happened almost a decade ago as a way to gain the upper hand in a computer game argument? Fuck man, you have got to realise how weak and pathetic that sounds from my point of view, surely?

You see...no matter how many times I tell you that your posts in this thread are silly and are not getting anyone angry you simply ignore it. It's funny...if anyone puts more than 10 seconds thought into what they post here, there will undoubtably be those who'll say "u mad" or other nonsense. You spend a whole paragraph spelling out why you don't like a game, I'll spend a whole paragraph telling you your reasons for not liking a game are kinda silly and then you say "u mad".

And since you decided to focus the discussion on my apparent anger (there isn't any) I decided to simply point out that you really aren't someone who should bash others on the topic of getting angry. If you aren't that person anymore, than kudos to you, because quite frankly you came across as a sociopath. But I really don't care, so I have no idea why you'd share your life's history with us.

Once you've learnt to enjoy happiness, you get quite creeped out by people who're so angry all the time. You've got so much negative energy built up that you look for any opportunity to offload it onto other people. I used to be like you, so I'm not judging you, I'm just pointing out that you don't seem very happy in your life.

Of course you'll tell me that you are, but happy people don't really care about things like this as much as you do.

lol are you for real? You're making the claim that I'm not happy in my life based on nothing more than chastising posts on an internet forum. I mean...I really could brag about my life, my career and all the good things my life (with a few members here that could confirm it) but that'd be a bit daft. You seem to be unable to stand others pointing out why your arguments are silly and petty. Dunno...is that anger? I don't know and don't care. I could point out the blatantly obvious and make the retarded claim that anyone in this thread who doesn't like the game is angry...but that would be stupid...exactly like your approach right now.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I also imagine the "bragging" is pure fiction dreamt up by you to give you a bit of leverage in this debate about an unreleased computer game.

Holy shit. You're a piece of work.

Ok...I'll bite: You created a thread wherein you bragged not just about slapping some woman in a bar, within the same thread you also bragged about beating up the guy who put a boot on your car and told everyone here that the last you saw of the man (after admitting to also taking his money) was his feet sticking out of a bush. Several people here sorta cheered you on. But then I remember bashing you and saying that you beat up a guy for doing nothing more than his job and seem like a nutter. Then right after I made that post other's started bashing you and the thread you created to brag about your anti-social behaviour blew up in your face. It must have really pissed you off because soon after that you put me on your ignore list.

I'm sorry, but the fact that you don't remember the shit way you treat people in public pretty much shows that you are probably still a sociopath after all. And truth be told, if nothing I've said here has jogged your memory then I have no doubt that you're a sociopath.

Happy Easter.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I love it when a thread lives up to it's title.

[Yeahso]

I also imagine the "bragging" is pure fiction dreamt up by you to give you a bit of leverage in this debate about an unreleased computer game.

Holy shit. You're a piece of work.

Ok...I'll bite: You created a thread wherein you bragged not just about slapping some woman in a bar, within the same thread you also bragged about beating up the guy who put a boot on your car and told everyone here that the last you saw of the man (after admitting to also taking his money) was his feet sticking out of a bush. Several people here sorta cheered you on. But then I remember bashing you and saying that you beat up a guy for doing nothing more than his job and seem like a nutter. Then right after I made that post other's started bashing you and the thread you created to brag about your anti-social behaviour blew up in your face. It must have really pissed you off because soon after that you put me on your ignore list.

I'm sorry, but the fact that you don't remember the shit way you treat people in public pretty much shows that you are probably still a sociopath after all. And truth be told, if nothing I've said here has jogged your memory then I have no doubt that you're a sociopath.

Happy Easter.

Oh you mean when I punched a wheel clamper for illegally clamping my car and then refusing to remove it until I gave him £135? Little bit different from "punched a guy and took his money", but yeah, I plead and plead guilty.

It probably did piss me off, if events went the way you say they did (they probably didn't), but since it was eight years ago, I would probably pick a different, less vindictive way to convince the world you're a happy bunny who is just having a bit of a laugh.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Well then I reiterate: I'm not the one with anger issues.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I love it when a thread lives up to it's title.

lol...I noticed the title change as well.

[Yeahso]

Yep, you're the epitome and level headed coolness.

You'll read your posts back in a week and you'll be able to see them from my point of view. Do you think the thread title was changed for everyone else?

[brisk]

Ok...I'll bite: You created a thread wherein you bragged not just about slapping some woman in a bar, within the same thread you also bragged about beating up the guy who put a boot on your car and told everyone here that the last you saw of the man (after admitting to also taking his money) was his feet sticking out of a bush. Several people here sorta cheered you on. But then I remember bashing you and saying that you beat up a guy for doing nothing more than his job and seem like a nutter. Then right after I made that post other's started bashing you and the thread you created to brag about your anti-social behaviour blew up in your face. It must have really pissed you off because soon after that you put me on your ignore list.

lol @ remembering 7 year old internet forum posts in such exquisite detail. is quake3world.com really such a crucial part of your life that you specifically remember stuff like that? that's just as much of a sociopathetic trait as punching some girl in a bar.