Quake3World

seremtan wrote:socialism sounds shit on paper

GONNAFISTYA wrote:

Turing wrote: I've had many an internet argument about how police need to use force as a last resort and stop being so itchy on their trigger fingers.

Sorry for bringing this up again but this quote itself is the counter-point that people who go through "rigoruous" qualification procedures to get permits and those that have been smart enough to become familiar with their weapons at training courses and the shooting range:

If the police "need to use force as a last resort and stop being so itchy on their trigger fingers."...how the fuck are you gonna expect the average Joe to not shoot people as often if not more than cops in crazy situations?

Think about this...paranoia is contagious and it feeds itself. Police (unfortunately in some cases...not all) have to put themselves through a ton of bullshit and abuse everyday. Lots of people distrust their police forces and some people fear or hate them. Cops spend each and every day thinking the absolute worst in people and are fully convinced that their life is in danger every second because everyone dislikes them. Otherwise they wouldn't be so twitchy during pull overs these days because a few crazy people actually shot cops during pull overs. I'd guess it'd be the same for a military man behind enemy lines...let's not forget some of the utterly crazy shit that happens in war (from all sides) because weapons where available in a non-combat situation.

Police officers in some areas think everyone could be packing, is willing to pull it out and use it against them in a stressful situation. If they don't think that, they make it clear to you that if you try ANYTHING unexpected they will shoot you. That's the typical tone they take with people who do dumb things behind the wheel and don't follow orders...before they taze them.

Seriously...if you are ever raided by the SWAT team...do NOT move and follow their orders EXACTLY. They will kill you and are trained to do just that against threats without hesitation.

I'd say it's safe to say that if trained, professional people can shoot people in the heat of the moment...Joe Blow would prolly do it, too.

BTW...Turing...you posted that a smaller guy with a gun would be more prepared to handle a larger, more powerful person. That is the exact situation where a smaller guy could "put the fear in" and pull out his piece to wave it around. I apply this theory that people act differently when they're armed and connect it directly to the same social problems as road rage....people have a "shield" between themselves and the target of their anger...therefore they're more liberated (like booze) in their reactions...so they scream at people sitting in traffic but would act perfectly normal on the street or in a social situation if someone bumped into them or cut in line at a queue.

Whenever I'm walking down the street and me and another person "mirror" passing movements and can't progress for a second or two...I laugh. Most people do. But in traffic...that person might get mad, scream, give me the finger or actually try to do something stupid. I think a weapon adds that same "shield" safety blanket of lessened critical thinking and can promote stupidity and unintended violence to new levels.

So fuck you.

Jackal wrote:It's impossible to say how many less deaths there would have been. Who's to say some "properly trained" person wouldn't miss and blow off some random's head? Cops go through a dedicated regiment of training and they do it all the time. I can just imagine what a scared bio major with a gun would do.

All arming your entire population is going to do is guarantee that whenever any crime occurs someone will get shot.

You aren't very smart.

Geebs wrote:well, speaking of knee-jerk reactions, surely the desire for students to carry is a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a percieved danger which is far less likely to kill an individual than, say, running with scissors. Bear in mind that the "equality of power" argument is clearly nonsense as it's precisely the fact that those psycho kids had guns that "empowered" them to do more than give someone a nasty paper cut.

Out of curiosity - if concealed carry laws mean that someone loses the right to carry if they get their gun out, what's the point? As per the above argument on probability, the logical point at which to allow concealed carry is the point at which the (negligable) benefits of carrying outweigh the (pretty small) risks

GONNAFISTYA wrote:

Turing wrote: I've had many an internet argument about how police need to use force as a last resort and stop being so itchy on their trigger fingers.

Sorry for bringing this up again but this quote itself is the counter-point that people who go through "rigoruous" qualification procedures to get permits and those that have been smart enough to become familiar with their weapons at training courses and the shooting range:

If the police "need to use force as a last resort and stop being so itchy on their trigger fingers."...how the fuck are you gonna expect the average Joe to not shoot people as often if not more than cops in crazy situations?

Think about this...paranoia is contagious and it feeds itself. Police (unfortunately in some cases...not all) have to put themselves through a ton of bullshit and abuse everyday. Lots of people distrust their police forces and some people fear or hate them. Cops spend each and every day thinking the absolute worst in people and are fully convinced that their life is in danger every second because everyone dislikes them. Otherwise they wouldn't be so twitchy during pull overs these days because a few crazy people actually shot cops during pull overs. I'd guess it'd be the same for a military man behind enemy lines...let's not forget some of the utterly crazy shit that happens in war (from all sides) because weapons where available in a non-combat situation.

Police officers in some areas think everyone could be packing, is willing to pull it out and use it against them in a stressful situation. If they don't think that, they make it clear to you that if you try ANYTHING unexpected they will shoot you. That's the typical tone they take with people who do dumb things behind the wheel and don't follow orders...before they taze them.

Seriously...if you are ever raided by the SWAT team...do NOT move and follow their orders EXACTLY. They will kill you and are trained to do just that against threats without hesitation.

I'd say it's safe to say that if trained, professional people can shoot people in the heat of the moment...Joe Blow would prolly do it, too.

BTW...Turing...you posted that a smaller guy with a gun would be more prepared to handle a larger, more powerful person. That is the exact situation where a smaller guy could "put the fear in" and pull out his piece to wave it around. I apply this theory that people act differently when they're armed and connect it directly to the same social problems as road rage....people have a "shield" between themselves and the target of their anger...therefore they're more liberated (like booze) in their reactions...so they scream at people sitting in traffic but would act perfectly normal on the street or in a social situation if someone bumped into them or cut in line at a queue.

Whenever I'm walking down the street and me and another person "mirror" passing movements and can't progress for a second or two...I laugh. Most people do. But in traffic...that person might get mad, scream, give me the finger or actually try to do something stupid. I think a weapon adds that same "shield" safety blanket of lessened critical thinking and can promote stupidity and unintended violence to new levels.

So fuck you.

R00k wrote: But I see you're still ignoring the studies that say more carry permits equals less violent crime.

GONNAFISTYA wrote:lol

That's like saying that only people who register, are trained and go through a test before getting their driver's license will somehow get rid of stupid drivers and car accidents.

Fuck dude...you want destruction in smaller doses I'll go that route, too.

Obviously you think people need guns. Go right ahead and blow each other away you proper idiot.

obsidian wrote:Instead of less guns in the US, they should just have less crazy people in the US. Problem solved.

EtUL wrote:I don't know why anyone argues in the threads like this, or global warming, or iraq, or bush...neither side is going to concede and see the other way, and it usually just turns into a barrage of name calling and olos

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:get a roomful of suicidals together and have a good time.

Geebs wrote: and arms races never did anyone any good.

YourGrandpa wrote:Geebs was obviously drunk typing....


People in America who carry/own weapons aren't generally paranoid. They do it because they can. These people also have health insurance, auto insurance and life insurance. All of which are simply precautionary devices that help protect you from the unknown. To make the argument that everyone who has health insurance is paranoid about getting sick would be preposterous.

Geebs wrote:I think that there's a bit of a cultural difference in this thread whereby the non-Americans just fundamentally find the idea of going around armed very paranoiac and depressing because, TBH, the chance of being affected by violent crime in the US is vanishingly small compared to perceived risk. Especially the whole armed-society-is-a-polite-society thing - people should be polite DESPITE being armed, not because of.

The other point us eurofags don't like is that cannoning up is always easier to than getting rid of weapons; and arms races never did anyone any good.

The other contextual point we generally fail to get is that in the USA it's absolutely fine to carry a fucking bazooka down the street as long as it's not concealed

GONNAFISTYA wrote:Whatever. Go arm yourselves.

The other contextual point we generally fail to get is that in the USA it's absolutely fine to carry a fucking bazooka down the street as long as it's not concealed

Geebs wrote:The other contextual point we generally fail to get is that in the USA it's absolutely fine to carry a fucking bazooka down the street as long as it's not concealed