Quake3World

Just found a neat penthouse section on Lucas Simms' place in Megaton. Good view of the town

Wow, not a pretty game, is it.

think i've played enough now to give it a fair shake.
Its exactly the game I was expecting. Morrowind (i never played oblivion since morrowind was so bad) with guns and a pipboy.

Its not the game I wanted and it certainly has a lot to hate on. But I also can't call it a bad game. Once mods come out of beta and fix some of the major issues with the character development it might be more fun; out of the box I give it 5/10

5/10? "BWAHJAHAWAHAJKSSDASDFASDSFADFADSFADSAAHAHA

I woulsn't say its a perfect game, but saying 5/10 is so stupid I should of said it...

why? its an average game. its not bad, but its not good.
5/10 = average

seems most places forget how numerical ratings should work.

with a scale like that one wonders what games you have been playing...do you give any games 8 and up?

of recent games similar to this one, bioshock would be in that category of 8+

hmm I must be missing something cause bioshock is just a straight up shooter...it honestly feels shallow in comparison to the gameplay depth fallout 3 offers. Maybe the environments were more lush in bioshock but other than that it's another doom 3.

Is there something in particular about fallout 3 gameplay you find detrimental to its success?

Calling Fallout 3 an "average game" is like looking at Michaelangelo's "David" and saying, "Meh, it's ok."

You mean the Turtle?

Tsakali wrote:hmm I must be missing something cause bioshock is just a straight up shooter...it honestly feels shallow in comparison to the gameplay depth fallout 3 offers. Maybe the environments were more lush in bioshock but other than that it's another doom 3.

Is there something in particular about fallout 3 gameplay you find detrimental to its success?

The paramount flaw is that the character dynamics are total shit. Which is bad in any rpg, but inexcusable in one with a fully developed canon to work from.

The bioshock nod came from you asking what a good recent game would be and that's the most recent that pops into my head (i don't play a lot of games anymore). Its quite similar in the vein that it was a retro-futuristic shooter with RPG elements. Where Fallout3 is also a retro futuristic shooter with RPG elements.

Seriously though, everyone (except the fallout fanbase) is being far to kind to this game. I'm not saying its a bad game. It is worth playing, but its not *great*... not even really *good*; just average.

Jackal wrote:Calling Fallout 3 an "average game" is like looking at Michaelangelo's "David" and saying, "Meh, it's ok."

if david's penis was on his forehead... maybe.

Dr_Watson wrote:

Tsakali wrote:hmm I must be missing something cause bioshock is just a straight up shooter...it honestly feels shallow in comparison to the gameplay depth fallout 3 offers. Maybe the environments were more lush in bioshock but other than that it's another doom 3.

Is there something in particular about fallout 3 gameplay you find detrimental to its success?

The paramount flaw is that the character dynamics are total shit. Which is bad in any rpg, but inexcusable in one with a fully developed canon to work from.

The bioshock nod came from you asking what a good recent game would be and that's the most recent that pops into my head (i don't play a lot of games anymore). Its quite similar in the vein that it was a retro-futuristic shooter with RPG elements. Where Fallout3 is also a retro futuristic shooter with RPG elements.

Seriously though, everyone (except the fallout fanbase) is being far to kind to this game. I'm not saying its a bad game. It is worth playing, but its not *great*... not even really *good*; just average.

I honestly can't even fathom where your oppinion is coming from. The game is monumentally different from Bioshock. In fact the only way I can think they compare is that they both use 50's music at times. Other than that, you may as well compare it with Sonic The Hedgehog.

What exactly is your comment about character dynamics supposed to mean? I think this game has some of the best dynamic characters I've ever seen. Especially considering how open-ended the entire thing is.

Haven't had the chance to play that much yet, just 3-4 hours but I'm loving it so far. Oblivion with guns, awesome!

feedback wrote:Wow, not a pretty game, is it.

Beautiful in its own particular way... but not colourful.



also lol:

Rubbish

Jackal wrote:What exactly is your comment about character dynamics supposed to mean? I think this game has some of the best dynamic characters I've ever seen. Especially considering how open-ended the entire thing is.

the character stats mean basically nothing to gameplay.
have you even played the older fallout games?
character development in this game is flat in comparison.

i'll pre-empt the "what are some examples? you're retarded if you don't think this shit is so deep you can fall in". whine

- if you have a 1 strength you can still use a minigun.
- lockpick and science skills are only used as a benchmark to get you into the minigame, and since the benchmarks are at 25/50/75/100 it means you have to pile 25 skill points into one of them to notice any benefit.
- action points are moot, since they only have an effect in VATS mode and not enough of an impact even in that. + the weapons don't tell you anything about AP cost so you can't even plan anything based on your action point yield.
- no traits and not enough useful perks. most of the perks that are there are pointless filler (skill point adders).
- nothing requires more than 7 in any stat, and with 10 levels of intense training available + a bobble head for every stat you can have 8's in every stat (and some 9's), making diverse characters non existent.
- Its also extremely easy to flat-max every skill, meaning everyone is a jack-of-all trades; hardly dynamic.
- since APs are neutered and stats don't matter (+ you can't push them over 10 or do any stacking) chems are also pointless.
- This game never forces the player to make any decisions about character development beyond picking what order to max your stats/skills in.

I agree that it's not particularly stat-heavy; OTOH that's not necessarily a bad thing. It does suffer from plenty of problems: the BoS are pretty horrid cliches straight out of oblivion, energy weapons are a total waste of time, the ability to boost everything via bobbleheads, the lack of really different locales e.g. the "vegas" of fallout 2; most of the vaults are stultifyingly dull. However, I've tried my first playthrough as a Big Dumb Guy (not least because I always played as a negotiator in the first two fallouts) and have pretty much managed to stick to my role. They have, however, got rid of the frustration you came up against in the earlier (wasting all your early XP on melee weapons, anyone?) and later stages of the first two fallouts, which set in when you either got sick of your character's particular skill set, didn't have quite enough conversational skill to talk your way through but were totally lacking in combat skills and thus hit a brick wall, or had to kill Dogmeat because he was blowing your cover.

Then again, what it lacks in variety, it makes up in detail; there's a good range of nicely morbid quests; for much of the early part of the game, you never really spend much time with more than a third of your health, which reminded me of system shock 2; it's possible to get your arse kicked for wandering into the wrong place; they've balanced travel time well with stuff to do; you can tell that the world's well designed because there's always an interesting looking building/cave/mast/whatever near to where you're going which will make you wander off and explore. There's a big range of kit and the weapons are nicely designed and balanced.

If you think of it as a post-apocalyptic Deus Ex, or a much less twitchy and broken STALKER, it's a riot.

Watson, you've gone off your rocker. The game deserves way more than you're giving it. 5/10? You gotta be outa your mind...

Anybody found the ol'faithful (I think its called)? Its a laser minigun and it does some insane damage per hit. It rips enemies apart so easily, I'm in love with it...

Nearly got all my bobble heads, only have 2 more to find

EDIT: Which reminds me... I have the Chinese Assault Rifle that starts with an "X", holds about 35 rounds per clip and does more damage, but is there a better combat Shotgun out there anybody has found...?

Dr_Watson wrote:i'll pre-empt the "what are some examples? you're retarded if you don't think this shit is so deep you can fall in". whine

- if you have a 1 strength you can still use a minigun.
- lockpick and science skills are only used as a benchmark to get you into the minigame, and since the benchmarks are at 25/50/75/100 it means you have to pile 25 skill points into one of them to notice any benefit.
- action points are moot, since they only have an effect in VATS mode and not enough of an impact even in that. + the weapons don't tell you anything about AP cost so you can't even plan anything based on your action point yield.
- no traits and not enough useful perks. most of the perks that are there are pointless filler (skill point adders).
- nothing requires more than 7 in any stat, and with 10 levels of intense training available + a bobble head for every stat you can have 8's in every stat (and some 9's), making diverse characters non existent.
- Its also extremely easy to flat-max every skill, meaning everyone is a jack-of-all trades; hardly dynamic.
- since APs are neutered and stats don't matter (+ you can't push them over 10 or do any stacking) chems are also pointless.
- This game never forces the player to make any decisions about character development beyond picking what order to max your stats/skills in.

I agree with every point.

o'dium wrote:Anybody found the ol'faithful (I think its called)? Its a laser minigun and it does some insane damage per hit. It rips enemies apart so easily, I'm in love with it...

Nearly got all my bobble heads, only have 2 more to find

EDIT: Which reminds me... I have the Chinese Assault Rifle that starts with an "X", holds about 35 rounds per clip and does more damage, but is there a better combat Shotgun out there anybody has found...?

Yeah there is. It's called "The Terrible Shotgun". You get it from the shopkeeper (ie: you have to kill him) in that Raider town - I can't remember its name. The one where they have the captured Berserker guy.

Geebs wrote: Then again, what it lacks in variety, it makes up in detail; there's a good range of nicely morbid quests; for much of the early part of the game, you never really spend much time with more than a third of your health, which reminded me of system shock 2; it's possible to get your arse kicked for wandering into the wrong place; they've balanced travel time well with stuff to do; you can tell that the world's well designed because there's always an interesting looking building/cave/mast/whatever near to where you're going which will make you wander off and explore. There's a big range of kit and the weapons are nicely designed and balanced.

If you think of it as a post-apocalyptic Deus Ex, or a much less twitchy and broken STALKER, it's a riot.

oh yeah, the environment is well made, though it does seem like the "wasteland" has a bit too many boxes full of shit just kinda laying around everywhere for being 200 years after the war (like wtf i have over 100 stimpacks and a locker full of every gun with hundreds to thousands of rounds and i'm only lvl 14). And like I said its not a bad game, the things it does well are very likable; just wish they'd had the balls to make it an RPG not an action adventure. Oh and Deus Ex was way better as an RPG shooter. They at least had the stones to make your weapon proficiency effect your ability to fire a gun accurately. I mean seriously, in Fallout3 the weapon skills affect the damage the weapon does, not your characters ability to use it? sure... that makes perfect sense :/ ... if I have a 15 in big guns I want rockets to go wildly off track ~85% of the time.