President Trump

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

not part of the establishment, okay...

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

not part of the establishment, okay...

How can you make such solid connections from a couple photographs, yet be able to completely dismiss any of the well documented concerns about the Clintons?

I dismissed nothing about the Clintons. The point is, Trump is a plutocrat just like them. Look at his history ffs. It's more than just photos.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

On Wednesday, Donald Trump came to Washington. It was not his first visit.

Trump plays the political outsider. “Washington is broken,” he declared in Iowa in January as he positioned himself to run. But he has been a Washington insider longer than almost any of his rivals.

Since the 1980s, he has lavished both parties with money. He’s employed D.C. lobbyists and aggressive tactics to influence politicians and further his business interests. He’s become comfortable enough with Washington to buy a nearby golf course and develop a hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, blocks from the White House, in conjunction with the federal government.

Even as he rails against corruption in American politics, his long history with Washington and lobbying raises questions about his promises to change the system of influence-peddling he has participated in for decades.

“I don’t fault him for having to work within the system that he’s dealt,” said former Republican Rep. Chris Shays, who met with Trump a decade ago over the businessman’s efforts to expand gambling in Connecticut. “I’d fault him for implying that somehow he’s different, because there’s nothing different about him.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/d ... z4OOSfWItu
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Not part of the establishment, yeah okay...

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I dismissed nothing about the Clintons. The point is, Trump is a plutocrat just like them. Look at his history ffs. It's more than just photos.

Hillary has openly stated, if she is President, she will attack Iran. As per the neo-con plan (and who are all 'for her', btw).

Trump has stated he wants less war, as far as allying with Russia against ISIS. Now, one can argue that one is full of shit, but how is that any reason to side with the admitted warmonger?

Which is better? Electing someone who you can then say 'OI, you said no war!', vs 'Well, you were told, so bombs away!'

Nice attempt at a pivot. Hillary would be proud of you. So your argument is that Trump is good because he's not Hillary. I agree with you about her. The problem is, Trump is no different. LOL at anyone who believes anything he says. Like I said, you're a rube.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Is a crisis of conscience too far out to be believable to the great unwashed?

Not sure you recognise what's referred to by 'the establishment' tbh. Follow the money, not the narrative.[/quote]
exactly. follow the money. can you not read?

here's the rest of that article (follow the money)

Veteran Republican lobbyist Charlie Black, whose old firm Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly represented Trump for over a decade, called Trump’s anti-Washington, anti-lobbyist rhetoric “ironic.”

“I like the guy, but he’s never been allergic to lobbyists before this year,” Black said.

The New York developer first employed Washington lobbyist Roger Stone, a veteran of Richard Nixon’s and Ronald Reagan’s presidential campaigns and partner of Black’s, as early as 1980, according to Stone’s recollection.

Stone said he views Trump’s political contributions tied to lobbying efforts -- on everything from the height of his buildings to slots for his planes at Washington’s Reagan National Airport and tribal recognition for would-be Native American casino operators -- as a necessary part of doing business.

“It’s not that there’s a quid pro quo, but they don’t even listen to you unless you’re a donor,” said Stone, who left Trump’s presidential campaign last month under disputed circumstances but continues to support his candidacy and maintains that Trump’s wealth gives him an independence that makes him more likely to reform the political system than his rivals.

A Trump spokeswoman did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

In 1987, Trump’s status as a Washington insider was cemented when Democrats decided they wanted a piece of the then-Republican developer’s money and his Reagan-era, rich-guy swagger. Democratic Speaker of the House Jim Wright visited Trump in New York and asked him to host the Democratic Congressional dinner, the DCCC’s largest fundraising event of the year.

Then-Sen. John Kerry ‑- architect of the Iran deal Trump came to Washington on Wednesday to condemn and whose bicycling hobby Trump regularly mocks – called Trump to ask him consider hosting the dinner.

''He sees Trump as an independent thinker who can put this thing together,” explained a Kerry spokesman at the time.

The Democratic wooing was not in vain.

By 1993, when Democrats took control of the White House, Trump’s allegiance had shifted with the political winds, and he paid $15,000 for a table at the dinner. That year he gave $5,000 to the defense fund of Democratic Rep. Dan Rostenkowski of Illinois after U.S. Attorney Eric Holder indicted him on corruption charges (Rostenkowski would plead guilty and later received a pardon from President Bill Clinton).

Also that year, lawmakers from Nevada arranged for Trump to meet with Democratic Speaker of the House Thomas Foley (Wright had resigned the speakership amid an ethics investigation) and various committee chairmen in an effort to limit the rise of Native American-run casinos, including one proposed operation in New Jersey, which threatened Trump’s gambling interests in Atlantic City.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/d ... z4OOU6Kxu8

also are you saying he's had a crisis of conscience?

[seremtan]

ah, happier times...

[Ryoki]

Also because they were told to. It was the Clinton campaign plan to 'elevate' the worst Republican candidates, according to them.

The media were directed? All of them? Really? A pretty paranoid thought, no? The more reasonable explanation here is that journalists follow a certain narrative for an entirely different reason; it sells.

And i don't know man, but the Republican candidates were a bunch of clowns, personally i laughed and laughed during the primaries. The worst one, sheesh - the Republicans have never fielded a more ludicrous team of candidates. Ever.

what utter bullshit are you referring to?

Come now.

What has the man said that isn't utter bullshit, either morally, legally or logistically? Haven't come across much myself, only that bit about the lobbyists here recently. And i don't believe for a second he'll actually implement that.

[Transient]

Hillary has openly stated, if she is President, she will attack Iran. As per the neo-con plan (and who are all 'for her', btw).

Trump has stated he wants less war, as far as allying with Russia against ISIS. Now, one can argue that one is full of shit, but how is that any reason to side with the admitted warmonger?

MATTHEWS: Where would we drop — where would we drop a nuclear weapon in the Middle East?
TRUMP: Let me explain. Let me explain.
Somebody hits us within ISIS — you wouldn`t fight back with a nuke?
…
MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. David Cameron in Britain heard it. The Japanese, where we bombed them in 45, heard it. They`re hearing a guy running for president of the United States talking of maybe using nuclear weapons. Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.
TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?

TRUMP: Well, I don’t want to take cards off the table. I would never do that. The last person to press that button would be me. Hey, I’m the one that didn’t want to go into Iraq from the beginning. The last person that wants to play the nuclear card believe me is me. But you can never take cards off the table either from a moral stand — from any standpoint and certainly from a negotiating standpoint.
BOLLING: Donald, I understand they are not taking the cards off the table for ISIS or Islamic terror. But when Chris expanded to Europe, what about that?
TRUMP: Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table. We have nuclear capability. Now, our capability is going down rapidly because of what we’re doing. It’s in bad shape. The equipment is not properly maintained. There are all lot of talk about that. And that’s a bad thing not a good thing. The last person to use nuclear would be Donald Trump. That’s the way I feel. I think it is a horrible thing. The thought of it is horrible. But I don’t want to take anything off the table. We have to negotiate. There will be times maybe when we’re going to be in a very deep, very difficult, very horrible negotiation. The last person — I’m not going to take it off the table. And I said it yesterday. And I stay with it.

DICKERSON: They talk about the presidency and who has the finger on the button. The United States has not used nuclear weapons since 1945. When should it?
TRUMP: Well, it is an absolute last stance. And, you know, I use the word unpredictable. You want to be unpredictable.

WALLACE: You want to have a nuclear arms race on the Korean peninsula?
TRUMP: In many ways, and I say this, in many ways, the world is changing. Right now, you have Pakistan and you have North Korea and you have China and you have Russia and you have India and you have the United States and many other countries have nukes.
WALLACE: Understood.
TRUMP: It’s not like, gee whiz, nobody has them.

BLITZER: But — but you’re ready to let Japan and South Korea become nuclear powers?
TRUMP: I am prepared to — if they’re not going to take care of us properly, we cannot afford to be the military and the police for the world. We are, right now, the police for the entire world. We are policing the entire world.
You know, when people look at our military and they say, “Oh, wow, that’s fantastic,” they have many, many times — you know, we spend many times what any other country spends on the military. But it’s not really for us. We’re defending other countries.
So all I’m saying is this: they have to pay.
And you know what? I’m prepared to walk, and if they have to defend themselves against North Korea, where you have a maniac over there, in my opinion, if they don’t — if they don’t take care of us properly, if they don’t respect us enough to take care of us properly, then you know what’s going to have to happen, Wolf?
It’s very simple. They’re going to have to defend themselves.

This coming from a man who doesn't know what the nuclear triad is.

[Transient]

Trump's not just saying stupid shit. His words are dangerous.

[Don Carlos]

I think Trump is just like Boris; if he wins he wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do

[Transient]

"I will attack Iran", or "we shall retaliate to (supposed) cyber-attacks militarily", are not dangerous words?

The Iran comment was made back in 2008 in response to Iran's nuclear program ramping up and them saber rattling about attacking Israel. Trump's comments were made this month. Of course they're dangerous words, but you're trying to sensationalize them by removing all context. She's going to be a shit president, but at least she isn't throwing around the nuclear card all willy-nilly like Trump is.

[Transient]

We're at documented Clinton crime and collusion, vs Trump saying stupid shit.

But Trump hasn't just said stupid shit, he's done terrible things, too.

[losCHUNK]

So the best thing about Trump being president is so he can get ousted by being a clusterfuck and be replaced by a republican ?

And semen, you know I dont like the fptp system but half the country still voted for right wing elitists, whilst the other half voted for left wing elitists.

[seremtan]

We're at documented Clinton crime and collusion, vs Trump saying stupid shit.

But Trump hasn't just said stupid shit, he's done terrible things, too.

are you referring to the accusations of sexual assault? or have i missed something even more terrible than that, like bombing a country until it no longer exists in any meaningful sense and turning up to 15% of its citizens into refugees then leaving it in a state of ongoing civil war?

i'm sure that if he'd done something like that it would have been shouted from the rooftops and he would have been dismissed as totally unsuitable for the office of president

[seremtan]

half the country still voted for right wing elitists, whilst the other half voted for left wing elitists.

37% Con + 30% Lab = 67% elitists
67% of 66% who voted = 44% voting for elitists in total

[losCHUNK]

half the country still voted for right wing elitists, whilst the other half voted for left wing elitists.

37% Con + 30% Lab = 67% elitists
67% of 66% who voted = 44% voting for elitists in total

Plus Nigel and combined with the SNPs stay pledge youre talking the vast majority. The way the lib dems sucked Tory dick n all you can throw them in, so all 5 of the largest partys.

[seremtan]

so is there anyone not actually part of the elite?

[losCHUNK]

Nope, no really ?, I had little hope for the Corbster but hes just another gobshite. Thats why I said half the country voted one brand whilst the other half voted for the other. Its a good rhetoric, same as Trump vs Billary.

I mean if you wanna disagree with what I said carry on but the 5 largest partys are either the elite or in bed with them ?

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

But Trump hasn't just said stupid shit, he's done terrible things, too.

are you referring to the accusations of sexual assault? or have i missed something even more terrible than that, like bombing a country until it no longer exists in any meaningful sense and turning up to 15% of its citizens into refugees then leaving it in a state of ongoing civil war?

i'm sure that if he'd done something like that it would have been shouted from the rooftops and he would have been dismissed as totally unsuitable for the office of president

sexual assault on children... man both Trump and Clinton are utterly despicable. Hard to believe the race is between the two.

[losCHUNK]

Its slightly depressing really, I dont know much about Bernie beyond face value but this seems like it wouldve been a good chance of getting someone decent elected.

[dubz]

Trump is not part of the establishment and you can read in the podesta leaks how the clinton campaign people expressed worries about pushing ahead trump and cruz because that would mean they wouldnt have an establishemnt candidate on the other side like they usually have. They were so worried about jeb bush, they had to intervene and it backfired terribly.. they elevated the idiot and now hes gotten too strong for them..

ofcourse trump tried to influence with his money, but hes just too small compared to the big players that are behind hillary, who in turn is lobbying for these corporations around the world... he knows some of the same people but hes not like citibank, who directly decide whos getting what government position..

its all in the leaks, instructions for media how to rigg polls, selling gov positions, clintons people redacting articles about the pres. race, jointly creating trump smear campaigns... and all the big media are in this collusion, nytimes, washington post, cnn, politico...

[losCHUNK]

They didn't want Trump in the driving seat cos they can't control what comes out his mouth anymore than he can and didn't want to throw away another chance at the golden throne, you can phrase it anyway you want but that's the crux of it. He's as established as they come, from his upbringing, education to his business and those he brushes shoulders with. He's the exact kind of person that will put pressure on politicians to carve out new tax laws.

It's like Sir Fred the semi successful plumber taking over the Tory party, you can go on about how the media or his party hound him all you want but a dumbfuck he is and that's how he will get treated. He acknowledged he hasn't read the TPP deal so doesn't understand it, but is against it for *reasons*, it's all fucking rhetoric that's used to play up to the public. He's a fucking salesman, this is his sales pitch and it's shit. You, Mr dubz are already making excuses about how he influences people with his money to bodly claim how he's different from the rest. Fact is Billary has these connections because she's a career politician and her husband was president, Trump has his connections because he's a snake oil salesman.

Billary isn't having an easy ride either, it's just when you have a choice between a clueless fucker and a fucker to drive your car then you're gonna chose the fucker.

What policies do you know of his ?, what's his stance on workers rights ?, foreign policy ?, immigration ?, education ?, healthcare ?, jobs ?... you know, the important shit and how will he reform the banking sector to make it more functional ?, how will he help promote private business and grow the economy ?, how will he punish these evil corporations that are behind Hillary ?, how will he help redistribute the wealth ?. Beyond the sales patter there's very little substance, he needs someone like Obama to sit him down and explain why the Navy isn't as large as it was in WWII and I spose you could say that this shows a complete incompetence by Hillarys party that she can't even take advantage of this, no wonder they were scared of someone with half a brain.

It's a sad state of affairs but don't try polishing a turd.

[dubz]

http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-r ... p-clinton/

we can argue semantics about the word establishment, but what the clinton people understand it to be is not something trump is a part of.

again, its all in the leaks and what i write about is not my "analysis" but what i read directly from the emails of the clinton campaign.

reddit, twitter and facebook have all been caught trying to surpress all the revelations from these leaks just like the big media because they are all involved, like cnn sending debate questions to hillary beforehand, or google with their special op squad called "erics team" working on the campaign..

[losCHUNK]

You're still pointing at Clinton to absolve Trump, it's just a different sales patter. Trump just wants to be the one that pushes the shit down hill.

What you're saying is anyone who isn't a career politician is not part of the establishment which is bollox. Remind me, who were the party candidates he donated to ?.

and about these policies ?.

[dubz]

so he wants to build a wall, so what. while hes doing that the rest of the world lives in peace for 4 years. On the next election the establishment is back in the race with their new candidate, this time a hip grandpa to pick it up where ron paul and bernie left it. grandpa will do flips on a skateboard and smoke medicinal.