Law wrote:lol, my whole argument is far from moot, considering the scenario I put forward is based upon the hypothetical circumstance of a child being in a normal school. Stop trying to win, and just discuss.
I AM fucking discussing! How about instead of defending your ego, you actually address the rest of what I said in that post, huh?
Law wrote:They are Hollywood stars?
They're famous. :icon27:
[quote="YourGrandpa"]I'm satisfied with voicing my opinion and moving on.[/quote]
bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
Children don't care about homosexual parents, they don't care if the kids are fat, kids don't really care about anything! Everything they do is on a very very basic level. They don't even understand what homosexuality or even heterosexuality is until a much older age, an age where they can be mature enough to understand and accept homosexuality.
can you define your idea of "children" and "kids" as in age please ?
I'm talking about ages 4-13 approx, the lower(?) school.
Once they reach 13 and up, it's the parents who can get their children to understand and accept homosexuality. I'll give that there will still be problems, but most can be avoided.
Last edited by bikkeldesnikkel on Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Imagine you raised a child in an environment where homosexuality was openly accepted as normal. The child's parents had gay friends over frequently and these gay people expressed themselves openly.
Imagine hollywood movies had gay heroes.
Imagine camp attitudes were portrayed as normal, in cartoons for example.
Imagine language changed to become gay-friendly.
Now here's my question - do you believe a child would have hostility toward gays in this environment?
Probably not, but what's the point in discussing a hypothetical situation that will never become a reality?
Why is this a hypothetical situation? My parents and I both have multiple gay friends. Neither of us have any young children around, but it's not hard to believe other people do.
Hollywood does have gay heroes. Brokeback Mtn, off the top of my head.
Being flaming is becoming more the norm. Queer Eye? Metrosexuals? Long hair? Those are all in things. And what about the males in anime cartoons? Many current popular toons are based on anime style, and they are certainly camp enough.
Language is becoming gay-friendly, although I admit not quite to the level that we'd like to see.
I don't think this is so much a case of people living in an idealized world as it is a case of you believing gays are worse off. Maybe it's where you live. I don't know.
The scenario where a child is raised where homosexuality was openly accepted as normal, the child's parents had gay friends over frequently and these gay people expressed themselves openly, hollywood movies had gay heroes, camp attitudes were portrayed as normal and language was portrayed to become gay-friendly is a totally hypothetical situation. In some parts of scoiecty some aspects of it are true, in some parts of society none of the aspects are true and no parts of society are all the aspects true.
Law wrote:Well that's where we disagree, I believe children will care about whether another student has two homosexual males as their parent.
Children don't care about homosexual parents, they don't care if the kids are fat, kids don't really care about anything! Everything they do is on a very very basic level. They don't even understand what homosexuality or even heterosexuality is until a much older age, an age where they can be mature enough to understand and accept homosexuality.
If the children in the school are properly raised kids, and the child with the homosexual parents isn't a "wuss" so to speak, then there will be no problems.
I do agree that if there are methods in which a child can be excluded from vilification then the problem is solved.
If you do agree on this, then you can at least start on such a level and see where it goes from there.
Like I said, I believe children will care about whether another student has two homosexual males as their parent.
Law wrote:lol, my whole argument is far from moot, considering the scenario I put forward is based upon the hypothetical circumstance of a child being in a normal school. Stop trying to win, and just discuss.
I AM fucking discussing! How about instead of defending your ego, you actually address the rest of what I said in that post, huh?
Law wrote:The scenario where a child is raised where homosexuality was openly accepted as normal, the child's parents had gay friends over frequently and these gay people expressed themselves openly, hollywood movies had gay heroes, camp attitudes were portrayed as normal and language was portrayed to become gay-friendly is a totally hypothetical situation. In some parts of scoiecty some aspects of it are true, in some parts of society none of the aspects are true and no parts of society are all the aspects true.
I just gave examples of why it isn't a hypothetical situation. Basically, your argument boils down to, "Gay men shouldn't be allowed to adopt in areas of society that homosexuality is not accepted."
That doesn't make for a sweeping anti-adoption argument. How about in Holland, should gays be allowed to adopt there?
Law wrote:The scenario where a child is raised where homosexuality was openly accepted as normal, the child's parents had gay friends over frequently and these gay people expressed themselves openly, hollywood movies had gay heroes, camp attitudes were portrayed as normal and language was portrayed to become gay-friendly is a totally hypothetical situation. In some parts of scoiecty some aspects of it are true, in some parts of society none of the aspects are true and no parts of society are all the aspects true.
I just gave examples of why it isn't a hypothetical situation. Basically, your argument boils down to, "Gay men shouldn't be allowed to adopt in areas of society that homosexuality is not accepted."
That doesn't make for a sweeping anti-adoption argument. How about in Holland, should gays be allowed to adopt there?
Is every adult and school child in Holland in acceptance of homosexuality?
By the way, I knew a gay kid in high school. He wasn't getting made fun of. He was a popular guy who had a bunch of friends. He was totally open about being gay and was very camp. His positive mentality no doubt contributed to his social status. Now if he can do it, why can't someone else who is one step removed? I would imagine that gay parents wouldn't elicit nearly the same response as someone being gay themself.
[quote="YourGrandpa"]I'm satisfied with voicing my opinion and moving on.[/quote]
Transient wrote:By the way, I knew a gay kid in high school. He wasn't getting made fun of. He was a popular guy who had a bunch of friends. He was totally open about being gay and was very camp. His positive mentality no doubt contributed to his social status. Now if he can do it, why can't someone else who is one step removed? I would imagine that gay parents wouldn't elicit nearly the same response as someone being gay themself.
But I thought
Transient wrote:Being gay and having gay parents are wholly different things. To assume that they would both elicit equal teasing in school is simply ignorant.
Law wrote:Like I said, I believe children will care about whether another student has two homosexual males as their parent.
Even if they would care, the psychological trauma would be totally up to the child itself and the children among him.
If you can accept gay parents and gay children who's to say it's not possible for (almost) everyone to accept them.
I myself as a child would not have had a problem with kids who had gay parents, so your theory of inherent homophobia is ruled out.
Simply because you as a small example representing the minority would not have had a problem with a child who had gay parents doesn't disprove the fact that the majority of children would feel differently.
bikkeldesnikkel wrote:
I'm talking about ages 4-13 approx, the lower(?) school.
Once they reach 13 and up, it's the parents who can get their children to understand and accept homosexuality. I'll give that there will still be problems, but most can be avoided.
my god!
do you have children?
in particular, daughters?
Transient wrote:By the way, I knew a gay kid in high school. He wasn't getting made fun of. He was a popular guy who had a bunch of friends. He was totally open about being gay and was very camp. His positive mentality no doubt contributed to his social status. Now if he can do it, why can't someone else who is one step removed? I would imagine that gay parents wouldn't elicit nearly the same response as someone being gay themself.
But I thought
Transient wrote:Being gay and having gay parents are wholly different things. To assume that they would both elicit equal teasing in school is simply ignorant.
He confirmed his first post. The last line says being gay and having gay parent will elicit different responses.
Law wrote:Like I said, I believe children will care about whether another student has two homosexual males as their parent.
Even if they would care, the psychological trauma would be totally up to the child itself and the children among him.
If you can accept gay parents and gay children who's to say it's not possible for (almost) everyone to accept them.
I myself as a child would not have had a problem with kids who had gay parents, so your theory of inherent homophobia is ruled out.
Simply because you as a small example representing the minority would not have had a problem with a child who had gay parents doesn't disprove the fact that the majority of children would feel differently.
But it does prove the fact it is not inherent in children.
)
