5th largest e-quake of century

[seremtan]

Yes he can come to this conclusion because pardon the pun, all the dust has settled in regards to Fukushima.

yeah, it's not like the japanese are advanced enough to be able to decontaminate any areas that might be affected

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world ... lobal-home

Separately, the Kyodo news agency reported that the I.A.E.A. had detected radiation levels 1,600 times above normal about 12 miles from the plant. The government has ordered people to evacuate a 12-mile radius around the plant and told those 12 to 18 miles away to stay indoors.

The crisis has raised fears about the spread of contamination of the environment and local food supply. The government has announced that traces of radioactive elements have been found in vegetables and raw milk from farms around the plant, prompting a government ban on shipments from those areas.

Elevated levels of radioactive iodine and cesium have also been detected in the seawater near Fukushima, and the government is testing seafood as a precaution, Yukio Edano, the chief cabinet secretary, said Tuesday. Government officials and health experts stress, however, that the doses are low and do not pose an immediate threat to human health.

Also on Tuesday the public broadcaster NHK, citing the government’s Science Ministry, reported that radiation levels surpassing 400 times the normal level had been detected in soil about 25 miles from the Fukushima plant.

In the NHK report, a Gunma University professor said that radiation released by iodine-131 had been found to be 430 times the level normally detected in soil in Japan and that released by cesium-137 was 47 times the normal levels. The professor, Keigo Endo, said that there was no immediate health risk but that the radiation levels would require monitoring.

Piece of fucking cake I'm sure, Stephen.

[mrd]

It's interesting to note that they keep saying stuff like "400 times this" and "47 times that" without giving any basis point. Normal levels of radiation are so damn small that they don't even warrant discussion, so saying that whatever has 400x as much radiation as normal isn't saying much in my books. Even saying that it has 1,600x as much radiation probably isn't much to write home about.

Fuckin' lotta scared ass mother fuckers on this planet, god damn.

[Tsakali]

but what about long term exposure of such levels? how long does it naturally take for a radiated area to clear up?

[mrd]

Well I'm fairly certain that acceptable levels (whatever that means) of radiation are measured on a per-year basis. I think that workers who deal with radiation on a daily or regular basis are rated as being allowed the highest amount. Again, these are probably pretty conservative numbers as they are likely erring on the side of caution. Which is certainly warranted when the punishment of too much radiation is cancer, radiation poisoning and death. As for long-term exposure... it's hard to say with vague statements like, "The I.A.E.A detected radiation 1,600x normal levels." Where? In the air? In the soil? In the food supply? In the water that's cooling the fuel rods? That's basically a bullshit statement and does nothing except to fuel fear mongering. While I'm not saying that people shouldn't be concerned about the radiation, I'm just saying to keep in mind that most news outlet's #1 purpose is to craft a story that sells, they don't really care about if what they are saying is actually true or holds water or makes sense. Anyone can pull scary numbers out of the air and write some horseshit. As for how long it would take to clear up... I guess that would depend on the specific half-lives of said elements that are present as well as where they are located.

In general, I think far too much speculation is going on about this. The crisis is still on-going and it doesn't make much sense for people that aren't directly in the area to worry about it. I'm sure that the twin nukes that USA dropped on Japan back in the 40s released a ton more environmental radiation that was spread across the planet with air currents than this disaster could ever do.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

It's interesting to note that they keep saying stuff like "400 times this" and "47 times that" without giving any basis point. Normal levels of radiation are so damn small that they don't even warrant discussion, so saying that whatever has 400x as much radiation as normal isn't saying much in my books. Even saying that it has 1,600x as much radiation probably isn't much to write home about.

Fuckin' lotta scared ass mother fuckers on this planet, god damn.

I'm not sure you'd have such a cavalier attitude if you lived in Naraha.

Stephen, when will people be able to return to their homes? Next week, next month, next year?

[mrd]

It's interesting to note that they keep saying stuff like "400 times this" and "47 times that" without giving any basis point. Normal levels of radiation are so damn small that they don't even warrant discussion, so saying that whatever has 400x as much radiation as normal isn't saying much in my books. Even saying that it has 1,600x as much radiation probably isn't much to write home about.

Fuckin' lotta scared ass mother fuckers on this planet, god damn.

I'm not sure you'd have such a cavalier attitude if you lived in Naraha.

Stephen, when will people be able to return to their homes? Next week, next month, next year?

No, certainly not, which is why I said in my next post that unless you live in the area or even in Japan, then you're wasting your god damn brain power worrying about this shit.

[seremtan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/asia/23japan.html?ref=global-home

Separately, the Kyodo news agency reported that the I.A.E.A. had detected radiation levels 1,600 times above normal about 12 miles from the plant. The government has ordered people to evacuate a 12-mile radius around the plant and told those 12 to 18 miles away to stay indoors.

The crisis has raised fears about the spread of contamination of the environment and local food supply. The government has announced that traces of radioactive elements have been found in vegetables and raw milk from farms around the plant, prompting a government ban on shipments from those areas.

Elevated levels of radioactive iodine and cesium have also been detected in the seawater near Fukushima, and the government is testing seafood as a precaution, Yukio Edano, the chief cabinet secretary, said Tuesday. Government officials and health experts stress, however, that the doses are low and do not pose an immediate threat to human health.

Also on Tuesday the public broadcaster NHK, citing the government’s Science Ministry, reported that radiation levels surpassing 400 times the normal level had been detected in soil about 25 miles from the Fukushima plant.

In the NHK report, a Gunma University professor said that radiation released by iodine-131 had been found to be 430 times the level normally detected in soil in Japan and that released by cesium-137 was 47 times the normal levels. The professor, Keigo Endo, said that there was no immediate health risk but that the radiation levels would require monitoring.

Piece of fucking cake I'm sure, Stephen.

jesus christ brian you are one dumb fuck. do you even read the shit you quote? or understand what it means? "radiation levels 1,600 times above normal" (normal being..?), "Elevated levels of radioactive iodine and cesium" (elevated above what? elevated to a high enough level, and for long enough, to be harmful?), "radiation levels surpassing 400 times the normal level" (the normal level is what?). if i said you were "1600 times more likely to have a clue in the next five minutes", you would still be a flailing tard five minutes from now, on account of being so dense now

also, "doses are low and do not pose an immediate threat to human health" and "no immediate health risk". but don't take any notice of those guys; they're just scientists. they've got nothing on you, bri

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

No, certainly not, which is why I said in my next post that unless you live in the area or even in Japan, then you're wasting your god damn brain power worrying about this shit.

Except there is a nuclear power plant less than 20 miles from where I live. If there were some sort of disaster at the power plant near me, 1-4 million people could be displaced/poisoned very easily. Are you saying we can't take lessons from things like this?

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

jesus christ brian you are one dumb fuck. do you even read the shit you quote? or understand what it means? "radiation levels 1,600 times above normal" (normal being..?), "Elevated levels of radioactive iodine and cesium" (elevated above what? elevated to a high enough level, and for long enough, to be harmful?), "radiation levels surpassing 400 times the normal level" (the normal level is what?). if i said you were "1600 times more likely to have a clue in the next five minutes", you would still be a flailing tard five minutes from now, on account of being so dense now

also, "doses are low and do not pose an immediate threat to human health" and "no immediate health risk". but don't take any notice of those guys; they're just scientists. they've got nothing on you, bri

Yes Stephen, I understand the the quote I posted. You seem to think that these things are perfectly acceptable, No immediate health risk, how long will these people have to deal with these health risks though and at what point do they become immediate? You talk of decontamination etc. but ignore the fact that radiation is still being emitted from the area and they don't even know the source, things are hardly stabilized and there is a massive fucking evacuation zone. (I guess all is well in the evacuation zone? You'd happily drop in to a pub for pint as there is no immediate threat right? oh wai)

[tnf]

I can definitely understand how this is creating an unsettling feeling for those who live near nuclear power plants. I've got faith in the technology that runs them but I never will underestimate the ability of humans to fuck things up and create a disaster where there never should have been one (its one of those things where you don't get the luxury of saying we have a statistically good safety record when one big fuckup means what it does when a reactor goes tits). I don't know that I'd want to live near both a nuclear power plant and a massive fault line.

We've been dealing with headlines over here in Washington like "SCIENTISTS IN WASHINGTON DETECT ELEVATED LEVELS OF RADIATION AFTER JAPAN REACTOR DISASTER" without mentioning that the 'elevated levels' are still thousands of times below what would even be considered a minimally hazardous exposure risk. People are forwarding emails about radioactive rain falling down on us and causing cancer, they are taking potassium iodide pills...generally forgetting that they are exposed to more radiation than what is being detected over here when they change the batteries in their smoke detector.

[mrd]

No, certainly not, which is why I said in my next post that unless you live in the area or even in Japan, then you're wasting your god damn brain power worrying about this shit.

Except there is a nuclear power plant less than 20 miles from where I live. If there were some sort of disaster at the power plant near me, 1-4 million people could be displaced/poisoned very easily. Are you saying we can't take lessons from things like this?

But didn't the powers that be assure us that there is no possibility of our reactors (I'm assuming you're Canadian as well and are referring to one of the reactors in Ontario or Quebec, yes?) being breached? As if.

I'm as worried as you are about that issue and I live across the country, so let me clarify. I'm saying not to worry about environmental radiation floating around after the incident has already occurred. It's not like a bomb has exploded and blasted radioactive shit all over the place. We're talking small leaks and at worst a fully exposed core, which is bad but not as bad as a weapon. Granted, I've read that Japan uses enriched uranium which I think is more radioactive than unenriched, so that gives a bit of pause for thought. Not sure if enriched uranium for reactors is on par with weapons-grade uranium. I think Canada uses strictly un-enriched fuel.

Also keep in mind the train of events that lead to this: Japan sits on a triple-fault line, was blasted by the largest earthquake in its history AND is fully susceptible to tsunamis! How often does that triplet of shitty circumstances occur? All of the reactors in eastern Canada are certainly not susceptible to 30ft tsunami waves wiping their backup generators off the map. At worst, they will be heavily damaged by an earthquake, but anything can be heavily damaged by an earthquake. To nullify something simply because an earthquake could occur is stupid because you have zero control over it. I'm pretty sure all modern reactors automatically shut down if an earthquake of a certain size occurs.

Harper is splitting and selling the company that designs and distributes our nuclear reactors, I think that is scarier than any earthquake.

[mrd]

I can definitely understand how this is creating an unsettling feeling for those who live near nuclear power plants. I've got faith in the technology that runs them but I never will underestimate the ability of humans to fuck things up and create a disaster where there never should have been one (its one of those things where you don't get the luxury of saying we have a statistically good safety record when one big fuckup means what it does when a reactor goes tits). I don't know that I'd want to live near both a nuclear power plant and a massive fault line.

We've been dealing with headlines over here in Washington like "SCIENTISTS IN WASHINGTON DETECT ELEVATED LEVELS OF RADIATION AFTER JAPAN REACTOR DISASTER" without mentioning that the 'elevated levels' are still thousands of times below what would even be considered a minimally hazardous exposure risk. People are forwarding emails about radioactive rain falling down on us and causing cancer, they are taking potassium iodide pills...generally forgetting that they are exposed to more radiation than what is being detected over here when they change the batteries in their smoke detector.

I say fuck 'em all. The more people that overdose on iodine pills means the more radioactive air that I can fuckin' breath.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

But didn't the powers that be assure us that there is no possibility of our reactors (I'm assuming you're Canadian as well and are referring to one of the reactors in Ontario or Quebec, yes?) being breached? As if.

I'm as worried as you are about that issue and I live across the country, so let me clarify. I'm saying not to worry about environmental radiation floating around after the incident has already occurred. It's not like a bomb has exploded and blasted radioactive shit all over the place. We're talking small leaks and at worst a fully exposed core, which is bad but not as bad as a weapon. Granted, I've read that Japan uses enriched uranium which I think is more radioactive than unenriched, so that gives a bit of pause for thought. Not sure if enriched uranium for reactors is on par with weapons-grade uranium. I think Canada uses strictly un-enriched fuel.

Also keep in mind the train of events that lead to this: Japan sits on a triple-fault line, was blasted by the largest earthquake in its history AND is fully susceptible to tsunamis! How often does that triplet of shitty circumstances occur? All of the reactors in eastern Canada are certainly not susceptible to 30ft tsunami waves wiping their backup generators off the map. At worst, they will be heavily damaged by an earthquake, but anything can be heavily damaged by an earthquake. To nullify something simply because an earthquake could occur is stupid because you have zero control over it. I'm pretty sure all modern reactors automatically shut down if an earthquake of a certain size occurs.

Harper is splitting and selling the company that designs and distributes our nuclear reactors, I think that is scarier than any earthquake.

here are six operating reactors at the Pickering nuclear station – two at the older Pickering “A” station and four at the Pickering “B” station.

The four Pickering “A” reactors are the oldest commercial reactors in the country, and began commercial operation between 1971 and 1973. The four Pickering “B” reactors were added on between 1983 and 1985.

The Pickering nuclear station has a greater risk of accident than other stations because the containment and Emergency Core Cooling System are shared between all reactors at the A and B stations. In addition, the Pickering “A” reactors are the oldest commercial reactors in the country, and because of their age are the only reactors in the western world with only one emergency shutdown system.

The Pickering station is also closer to larger numbers of people (Toronto) than any other nuclear plant in the world. For that reason, regulatory authorities would not allow a new plant to be built at Pickering today.

-----------------------------------

Following the accident at the American Three Mile Island nuclear station in 1979, an all-party committee of the Ontario Legislature (the Select Committee on Hydro Affairs) investigated Ontario’s nuclear policies. In its 1980 report to the legislature, the committee concluded that:

“It is not right to say that a catastrophic accident (in a CANDU reactor) is impossible ... The worst possible accident could involve the spread of radioactive poisons over large areas, killing thousands immediately, killing others through increasing susceptibility to cancer, risking genetic defects that could affect future generations, and possibly contaminating, for further habitation, large land areas...
Accidents, mistakes and malfunctions do occur in [CANDU] nuclear plants: equipment fails; instrumentation gives improper readings; operators and maintainers make errors and fail to follow instructions; designs are inadequate; events that are considered `incredible' happen...no matter how careful we are, we must anticipate the unexpected.”
-----------------------------------

Are airplane crashes or terrorist attacks a concern at the Pickering nuclear station?


Yes. The federal government is proposing to build an international airport in Pickering and September 11th revealed that all of Canada’s nuclear stations are vulnerable to a terrorist attack.

It is noteworthy that after the September 11th, the Nuclear Insurance Association of Canada refused to provide coverage for potential terrorist incidents at nuclear stations for such things as air plane crashes. The insurance industry has acknowledged and is accounting for the potential for a terrorist attack at Canada’s nuclear stations.

-----------------------------------

above from Greenpeace website





We also have Darlington nearby. :/

[mrd]

Well in that case, I would say you should get the fuck out of dodge.

EDIT: Not to downplay any hazards that may or may not be present where you live or whatever. If you're seriously worried about this stuff you should check into it more and not listen to a bunch of goons on a damn video game forum. Personally, I don't waste my brain power worrying about black swans. If a reactors explodes and I die, then whatever. Shit happens man. I'd rather say that I spent my days being creative or something than worrying about the possibility of a reactor designed by a dim-witted fucktard ruining eastern Canada.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet


I kinda like it here though.


For anyone interested, here is the biggest issue we have to deal with here in regards to our nuclear plants.

http://www.friendsofbruce.ca/Special%20 ... Notes.html

[mrd]

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet


I kinda like it here though.


For anyone interested, here is the biggest issue we have to deal with here in regards to our nuclear plants.

http://www.friendsofbruce.ca/Special%20 ... Notes.html

Never knew about that one. Why can't we just ship tritium to the Americans instead of our actual water? By the time they realized what was up, half the population would have cancer.

[shadd_]

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet


I kinda like it here though.


For anyone interested, here is the biggest issue we have to deal with here in regards to our nuclear plants.

http://www.friendsofbruce.ca/Special%20 ... Notes.html

I'm always suspect when someone cites an article from an activism website and the article itself has terrible citation.

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol @ stupid yanks that freaked out and bought anti-radiation meds

[GONNAFISTYA]

I have to say I don't understand why people don't want/like nuclear-based energy. In terms of "normal, everyday use" it's pretty damned reliable and safe. Yes, it's dirty to mine and get rid of the waste (there are solutions but nobody wants to bear the cost of getting them implemented) and yes there's a reason to be concerned about the reactors if a disaster happens, but this event has proven that it takes some pretty fucking hardcore disasters to happen before you have begin worrying about the reactor.

It makes me wonder why they didn't have a contingency plan for the tsunami, being so close to the coast and all.

[shadd_]

The plant was ancient and due to be shut down.

The newer designs are incredibly safe. Cooling can take place without electricity(convection), etc...

Additionally I don't believe in conserving power as a way of adapting to future power needs. I want all the fucking power I want/need, whenever I want it.

Nuclear of some form is the only source that can supply the future I envision.

[mrd]

I also heard that that plant was designed in part by Americans which is the obvious reason for any failures.

[Eraser]

I have to say I don't understand why people don't want/like nuclear-based energy. In terms of "normal, everyday use" it's pretty damned reliable and safe. Yes, it's dirty to mine and get rid of the waste (there are solutions but nobody wants to bear the cost of getting them implemented) and yes there's a reason to be concerned about the reactors if a disaster happens, but this event has proven that it takes some pretty fucking hardcore disasters to happen before you have begin worrying about the reactor.

It makes me wonder why they didn't have a contingency plan for the tsunami, being so close to the coast and all.

I'm generally against nuclear power plants. Not because of the dangers but because of the radio active waste product. The only way to get safely rid of that is to stash it in deep underground bunkers for tens of thousands of years.

I'm pretty damn sure the human race is incapable of planning ahead that far.

[seremtan]

lol @ stupid yanks that freaked out and bought anti-radiation meds

this is why all the western reporting on fukushima etc has to have its western-risk-averse-tinted filter removed before consumption

lol, even the normally gung-ho pro-nuke uk conservatives are now having second thoughts about building new plants - in spite of the fact that a) we're thousands of miles from a major fault line, b) we're well-protected against tsunamis due to being surrounded by irish, french, spanish, dutchees (finally useful for something, thanks fags) etc, c) if the current generation of nuke plants aren't replaced the lights will start going out within 10 years, d) the alternatives are currently inadequate vis a vis replacing nuke plants, and e) the plants they *would* build - if they did - would be newer and safer than fukushima

having said that, roll on fusion

[Plan B]

I think nuclear power is absolutely the way to go, especially if the focus would shift more to nuclear *fusion* (less by-product).
All alternatives < nuclear power.

This whole Fukushima debacle seems so fucking retarded when you think about it;
When building the plant they had some very imbecile safety measures implemented;
They thought it was adequate for the plant to withstand 7 meter waves and an 8.3 quake.
Build that fucker 10 meters higher, you cunts, ffs.

The reactions in other countries about using nuclear power is pretty ridiculous.
Especially Germany where they're getting all hysterical about closing plants.
You'd almost want a fucking earth quake and tsunami to strike there, if it weren't for the fact that it hasn't happened for the past 10.000 years and will not happen for the next.