Quake3World

TOVE wrote:Well if I've read correctly your against private citizen ownership.

If 2 crack heads bust into your home at 3 am what you gonna do to protect your fam?

tnf wrote:

Regarding the home defense issue - and this is a broad question, so don't (again) interpret it as a subtle anti-gun rant -
when you think about it, aren't the number of home-invasion situations where owning a gun would be helpful fairly small? Here's my point - unless you are talking about a pistol or other small weapon that you keep at your side all the time, the gun is likely going to be locked away in a safe place. With that in mind, consider the 3 simplest categories of invasion - 1) you are home when it happens, 2) you are not..and 3) you come home to find someone in your house.

Obviously situation 2 means that the gun is useless for protection and if not secured properly (of even if in some cases) can end up on the streets as a newly acquired tool for a criminal.

In situation 1 - if you are sleeping and they break in and set off an alarm they may bolt. If its the type of person that doesn't bolt when the alarm goes off, odds are they may be a bit more nutty and may be the aggressive type for whom having to get out of bed (being groggy, startled, dazed) unlock and load your weapon, and then get into a position to defend yourself or your family without getting one of them killed in the process is going to be rough, especially with a shotgun. We can all envision ideal situations where the gun does save the day, but I would argue that you can see just as many, if not more, where it makes things worse when you have an aggressive and violent home intruder (most aren't violent and just want some shit without getting caught). Usually people counter my question here with some hypothetical where everything works just fine and the bad guy is shot and everyone else is safe, but I'm looking from the perspective of the total number of scenarios where its helpful for security vs. those where it isn't or where it just makes things worse. Now if you have a pistol, and are very effective with it, the situation may be a little different due to the precision issue, but the other logistical considerations are still present. If you aren't sleeping when they try to break in, and you get to the gun before they make it in, and they don't shoot you first, I can see the benefit.

In situation 3 - if you surprise an intruder by getting home when they are in your house, the gun (unless it is on you) seems to be a non-issue or perhaps a bigger risk in the case of them getting a firearm that isn't secured or perhaps even managing to access one that was secured (assuming that they may have had the tools for this). The odds of you getting to a locked gun, loading it, and all this, while someone else is in your house again seem small. And if you know the person is in the house, but aren't sure where, going in to get your gun is sheer stupidity as you don't know if they are armed. If you come home and see that someone else is there, the only real sane choice is to get the fuck out until the police come.

So I really only see one small subset of situations where a gun truly is a good 'insurance policy' for protecting your home. The number of situations where a person will be able to successfully use it to protect themselves seems really small compared to those where it doesn't help or perhaps making things worse by turning a person who wasn't going to be a violent criminal into someone who is (here I am going off the observation that many of the people I know who speak boldly about how safe their house is because of their guns have no training beyond target practice in how to use the gun in a potentially violent situation and would most likely either miss their target entirely or have said target wrestle the gun from them and shoot them instead.)

So, what is it I am missing about how a gun is truly a very useful home defense tool? I am sure there are things I have overlooked on both sides, but I can't envision myself truly feeling safer because I have a gun in my house (unless its on me all the time, and even then...)

I don't care if people want to own guns. Just trying to learn more about the perspective of those who really do consider guns an insurance policy for home safety.

tnf wrote:I've posted my opinion regarding gun ownership in the past and made it clear that I am not against it. Competitive shooting, collecting unique and antique guns, etc....I don't care. Knock yourself out.

LawL wrote:Gramps' kid goes for a swim in the pool.

LawL wrote:Gramps gets ready to take the yacht out on the harbour.

Ryoki wrote:Why do guns always have to be such menacing black? It's so cliche. I think fluorescent orange paint would communicate much clearer the inherent dangers of handeling such a weapon. Or maybe you could paint some yellow stripes on that black, so that it looks like some kind of dangerous insect.