Quake3World

tnf wrote:I have to admit that I am getting a tad bored with fallout 3 and I still have tons of stuff to do.

Fast travel is nice, but walking at a snail's pace to locations a few miles away...bleh.

I liked Oblivion more I think.

Agreed, Oblivion's environments were more varied, Fallout 3 tends to be a bit monotonous. Plus the random encounters just feel like a waste of ammo (fucking radscorpions can take huge amounts of punishment before going down).

Fast travel takes away a lot of the immersion though.

now that i finished the game i think my original assessment was right. 5/10

the main story is too short and terrible to make this a good game.
what the fuck is the point of having a bajillion places you can go if the main plot arc only uses about 5 of them?
this game ends up being huge missed opportunity and leaves you with a very "meh?..." feeling upon completion.

I'm just finishing the main quest...done a fair number of side ones too....and I doubt I'll play through it again. The VATS bit is fun but this world just hasn't sucked me in. As imperfect as Oblivion was, it outshines Fallout 3 in the replayability dept. by a fair amount...at least for me. The game is not bad...just not very compelling or inviting.

Whoever voice acted the female raiders sounds like Francine from American Dad.

LOL what retarded review website gave Fallout 3 100/100? What money hungry muppets

This game keeps growing on me all the time, at first I wasn't very impressed with it compared to Oblivion, but after a while it turned out really good.

Loved wandering around the wastelands, and downtown DC was a distinctly separate experience, which was a nice touch. As my character is approaching level 20 now, I think I'll save about half of the wasteland to explore with another character. Plus, the Rivet city quests I think.

Unfortuneately I managed to stumble across both Vault 112 and the Franklin Memorial before I was supposed to, but that's ok I guess, although it does take away somewhat of the total experience.

The main quest is way better than Oblivions so far though which is nice, although just like in Oblivion the main quest isn't really the point of the game, it's all about the sidequests and the exploration.

I'm going to finish the main quest off now with this character now, then I'll start a new one, focusing on melee and energy weapons instead of small and big guns as my current one, and go explore the remaining half of the game. Good times.

I stopped playing a few weeks ago and haven't touched it since. I just finished up in Rivet City and am still trying to get to galaxy radio and still get lost trying to get around the city and over there...
Another thing, you'll find some building or memorial or underground tunnel system or whatever...can't you really fuck up chances for future sidequests/freeform quests if you go to the wrong place to early or interact with characters prior to talking to someone else first? It seems like this has prevented me from doing some quests that I see in hintbooks. As nonlinear as the game is, don't you have to sort of do things in a specific order if you want 100% completion?

For all the time they took with developing a huge world, I wish they would have spent some time on less clunky animations, better combat, and character models that didn't look so washed out.

Grudge wrote: Loved wandering around the wastelands, and downtown DC was a distinctly separate experience, which was a nice touch. As my character is approaching level 20 now, I think I'll save about half of the wasteland to explore with another character. Plus, the Rivet city quests I think.

seriously, that's what i just don't get about these bethesda games. I just don't want to wander around the world aimlessly like some sort of mad cartographer chasing the horizon for 50 hours. I just find it boring, tedious, and frankly lazy craftsmanship.
I want the main narrative to take you on a tour of the world with a sprinkling of clues that offer exploration of side branches to various other parts and a clever secret here and there. It's a video game not a fucking treadmill, and its not called "Jules Winfield wanders the world like kane in kung fu".

could someone explain the allure; because i hated the story telling and disengaging world presented in fallout 3 almost as much as i hated the one in morrowind. GTA4 did a decent job with story and the voice acting was some of the best i've ever seen; but they also failed to keep me interested in anything more than getting the thing over with because the repetitious nature of their 'get a job from this guy, oh now get a job from this new guy' system went beyond lazy and irritating after oooh, about 30 of them. But they made the opposite mistake of having this big pretty postcard of a city that was just as much of a facade as an actual post card. Felt like having a turf war over set pieces from an Axel Foley movie.

so please... wtf is the deal with these "sandbox" games?
how is it not just lazy story telling to force the player to "just fiddle about by yourself until you trip over the shoddy half-assed undeveloped plot line a few times... it will be sweet".

I still maintain that most of the early-middle storyline in morrowind was great; sure it jumped the shark at the end, but the atmosphere up to that point was great. Bethesda have tended to lose a lot of the atmosphere in their later games though; but the way that morrowind had you gear up and then go out into the wilderness with fairly imprecise directions was great, especially once a dust storm kicked up and your character was running out of hitpoints and suffering from a crippling disease or two. Plus those giant mushrooms the sorcerors lived in were a masterstroke of design. That sense of desperation came across quite well in the start of fallout but not really in the later stages. If they'd made stalker with the fallout engine, that would have been awesome.

I agree that storyline-based games are more satisfying in some ways, but I thoroughly enjoy games which put you in a great big sandbox and avoid the deus ex "three different routes for three different characters" approach. I can see why people would hate Morrowind, but (especially if you install a distant lands patch) it kicks much of Bethesda's later output square in the nuts.

tnf wrote:Another thing, you'll find some building or memorial or underground tunnel system or whatever...can't you really fuck up chances for future sidequests/freeform quests if you go to the wrong place to early or interact with characters prior to talking to someone else first?

For the main questline, you just "skip ahead" if you happen to stumble upon something a bit too early, you will never fuck it up, just miss a few steps on the way. All in all I think they handled that pretty good.

For some sidequests, sure you can fuck them up so they won't work. Killing the wrong person (or doing it too early) for example will close that quest, which is a bummer, but I don't see how it could work any other way.

The thing to remember with Betheseda games is though that you are not supposed to 100% the game with one character. Many people seem to miss this. You are supposed to create new characters to test different aspects of the game. That's the whole point of the cap at level 20.

I'm aware that this doesn't go too well with the OCD completionist crowd, but maybe this is just not a game for them. I, for my part really like to just wander around and discover new stuff, do sidequests here and there and generally just take in the scenery. Mind you, that doesn't mean that I like all sandbox games, I hated GTA III for example, it felt just too empty and soulless - I'm guessing a game need to hit the right spot when it comes to atmosphere and immersion (and style), and IMO Fallout 3 does exactly this.

Grudge wrote:

tnf wrote:The thing to remember with Betheseda games is though that you are not supposed to 100% the game with one character. Many people seem to miss this. You are supposed to create new characters to test different aspects of the game. That's the whole point of the cap at level 20.

That first sentence makes absolutely no sense. But let me just add on what I think you're trying to say. This is a game that has a huge amount of re-play value. You make decisions and if the result doesn't turn out the way you wanted it to, you can go back the next time and handle the situation differently. Or if you miss a quest altogether, you can go back and do it next time. You also need to focus your skills on only a few. Then on your next character, you focus on some different skills. It creates a whole new experience as you go through the game. So you can play this game over and over and it will never be the same. I don't think some people grasp that concept...

I thought wandering around the wastes was the best part too. I didn't care for that aspect in oblivion, but f3 seems to have more interesting shit going down out there.

xer0s wrote: That first sentence makes absolutely no sense. But let me just add on what I think you're trying to say. This is a game that has a huge amount of re-play value. You make decisions and if the result doesn't turn out the way you wanted it to, you can go back the next time and handle the situation differently. Or if you miss a quest altogether, you can go back and do it next time. You also need to focus your skills on only a few. Then on your next character, you focus on some different skills. It creates a whole new experience as you go through the game. So you can play this game over and over and it will never be the same. I don't think some people grasp that concept...

too bad they broke the SPECIAL and skill system so badly that you don't concentrate on making a specialized character (as you would in previous fallouts). Morrowind was the same way, characters always end up being a do everything superhero.

Doc, I don't know if you just don't know how to play, or what, but I have no problem specializing my character...

No offense...

I think Doc's saying that there's no point in specialising, as they broke the system so badly, it's possible to master everything.

Mat Linnett wrote:I think Doc's saying that there's no point in specialising, as they broke the system so badly, it's possible to master everything.

*ding*

Dunno about that, it was fairly easy to get high skills in a lot of different areas in the original games. I just used to run into problems with some trait which, further down the line, I'd find was messing up my character

I'm starting to feel the same way about Mass Effect that I did in Fallout...

Now, I've only just started playing it, after owning it for a year... But I'm finding that I'm levelling up way to fast, I'm already level 30 or so, and theres a level 50 cap on the first play

Great game though...

Dr_Watson wrote: too bad they broke the SPECIAL and skill system so badly that you don't concentrate on making a specialized character (as you would in previous fallouts). Morrowind was the same way, characters always end up being a do everything superhero.

So basically the old Fallout fans think you can't specialize enough, while people unfamiliar with RPG's think that you have to specialize too much.

I don't see how Betheseda could possibly satisfy everyone in this situation?

Mat Linnett wrote:I think Doc's saying that there's no point in specialising, as they broke the system so badly, it's possible to master everything.

I'm level 15 right now and the only skill I have mastered is Small guns, with Big guns at 75 in second place. Please tell me how I'm going to master everything with only 5 levels to go?

not entirely true about Morrowind chars to max out everything endgame btw. there was a lvl cap of 100 i think, and that was the sum of certain skills.

you could maximise your potential but you couldnt reach lvl100 for every skill

Grudge wrote:I'm level 15 right now and the only skill I have mastered is Small guns, with Big guns at 75 in second place. Please tell me how I'm going to master everything with only 5 levels to go?

Ask Doc; I'm still not playing this. I was just clarifying Doc's point.

Grudge wrote:

Mat Linnett wrote:I think Doc's saying that there's no point in specialising, as they broke the system so badly, it's possible to master everything.

I'm level 15 right now and the only skill I have mastered is Small guns, with Big guns at 75 in second place. Please tell me how I'm going to master everything with only 5 levels to go?

when I finished the game my character had
100 big guns
100 small guns
100 sneak
100 lockpick
100 repair
100 explosives
and ~75 in
energy weapons
science
medicine
speech
I don't think I had less than 50 in anything.
my SPECIAL stats were all crazy high as well... IIRC there were 10's in I A and L and nothing lower than 6 in the others.

see if you start the game with high ass intelligence and pick up educated perk you crank out > 20 skill points per level.
high luck adds skill points to everything, high other special stats add skill points to things. Added onto the +15pts you get in 3 tag skills, +10 from each skill related bobble head. So then the 400 skill points you get from leveling up can maximize about 5 or 6 skills Comprehension perk plus the bajillion books laying around fills in the rest.

Skill books can count for about 50 points on every single skill... so if you get every skill to 50 and do the hunt you get a character at about 100 all round.

That said, average player man isn't going to do that so just because you can do it.. doesn't mean most will do it.

hmm, seems like I'm just not the completionist min/maxer type then