Quake3World

Ryoki wrote:Lol jesus, looks like my innocent question led to a whole thing I was just wondering about the mechanics and if i was doing it right or wrong, which has been answered. Thanks Andy and feedbag.

I'm not working towards a long term goal at all, the only two reasons i go to the gym are 1) to not become a fat motherfucker, which i find hard if i don't work out since my girl is a goddamn excellent cook and i quit smoking and 2) because working out makes me feel good physically and mentally for something like 24 hours afterwards. I quite like the feeling of aching muscles.

good stuff, those are worthy goals... i only assumed you didn't have any because you said you went twice a week at the most.

andyman wrote:

Ryoki wrote:Lol jesus, looks like my innocent question led to a whole thing I was just wondering about the mechanics and if i was doing it right or wrong, which has been answered. Thanks Andy and feedbag.

I'm not working towards a long term goal at all, the only two reasons i go to the gym are 1) to not become a fat motherfucker, which i find hard if i don't work out since my girl is a goddamn excellent cook and i quit smoking and 2) because working out makes me feel good physically and mentally for something like 24 hours afterwards. I quite like the feeling of aching muscles.

good stuff, those are worthy goals... i only assumed you didn't have any because you said you went twice a week at the most.

Help me with my shoulder issue

GONNAFISTYA wrote:lol nearly 70 fuckin pages of "You're doing it wrong!" and if you aren't as obsessed as the rest of the fucking idiots then "You're doing it wrong!"

I know right? How dare these cunts discuss the most effective way to get results.

we should ride bikes through the mountains for 2hrs. i know for SURE that will get me a 100kg snatch. probably the same day!

feedback wrote:

[xeno]Julios wrote: Explain how I got to dipping and chinning 100+ pounds, and flat pressing 90 lb dbs for reps doing those movements precisely ONCE a week then (6-10 reps per movement per week).

That's hardly treading water - those strength gains accumulated over time.

Because you're a beginner. Those are noob gains. Once you are an intermediate/advanced lifter, you go from putting on 15-20 lbs of muscle a year to 5, then 3, then 2, etc.

I clearly remember my beginner gains - easy and fun, strength would go up each workout. I even got to 180 pounds, although my strength was laughable compared to what it is a couple months ago at 165 pounds.To get to the current figures, I went through several periodization cycles. I don't think it makes sense to classify everything as noob vs beginner gains - and I think you also need to take into account bodyweight when judging whether someone's lifting performance is novice or not.

Chinning 105 pounds is, I think, a touch beyond novice territory.

What is this chinning you speak of?

doing chinups with a belt that you can attach weight to.

Forget it - pull ups
You do 105lbs weighted pull ups?!
Fuck....I did 5 pull ups weighted @ 70lbs and I couldn't have managed another. I was kipping as well!

Don Carlos wrote:What is this chinning you speak of?

Jesus...

Don Carlos wrote:Any tips on locking out shoulders with overhead squats?

110lb OHS yesterday but I struggle with keeping my shoulders locked and I wobble? Or is this also a case of not having enough core strength?

My legs are more than strong enough to lift this weight, so they are not the issue.

Forget about the squat aspect for now. Are you able to reach full locked position of shoulder flexion from a standing position (i.e. can you get your upper arms completely vertical? Not everyone can do it - there may be issues at the glenohumeral joint (where the humerus interfaces with the gleniod process of the scapula), but that's rather unlikely. It could be a basic lack of thoracic mobility due to tight lats or pecs.

You'll also want to engage the traps when in the overhead position (think of doing a shrug). This will stabilize the shoulder blade (scapula) and rotate it into a position where the glenoid process is favourably aligned for healthy articulation with the humeral head.

If none of this makes sense, I'll link to a good article that explains it.

Fuck u...

Don Carlos wrote:Forget it - pull ups
You do 105lbs weighted pull ups?!
Fuck....I did 5 pull ups weighted @ 70lbs and I couldn't have managed another. I was kipping as well!

Neutral and close grip pullup/chinup. So palms facing together about 7 inches apart. Full range of motion, so chest to bar. Starting from a dead hang, and no kipping. Could only do one full range rep at this weight - second rep would only be chin to bar.

Could do three reps with that weight for dips, with shoulders dipping way below elbows. I've since learned that it may not be necessary to go that deep.

[xeno]Julios wrote:

Don Carlos wrote:Any tips on locking out shoulders with overhead squats?

110lb OHS yesterday but I struggle with keeping my shoulders locked and I wobble? Or is this also a case of not having enough core strength?

My legs are more than strong enough to lift this weight, so they are not the issue.

Forget about the squat aspect for now. Are you able to reach full locked position of shoulder flexion from a standing position (i.e. can you get your upper arms completely vertical? Not everyone can do it - there may be issues at the glenohumeral joint (where the humerus interfaces with the gleniod process of the scapula), but that's rather unlikely. It could be a basic lack of thoracic mobility due to tight lats or pecs.

You'll also want to engage the traps when in the overhead position (think of doing a shrug). This will stabilize the shoulder blade (scapula) and rotate it into a position where the glenoid process is favourably aligned for healthy articulation with the humeral head.

If none of this makes sense, I'll link to a good article that explains it.

Yeah the shrug is what I am working on and it does stablise me a little, but I am still very unsteady. Perhaps a wider grip is needed also?

Don Carlos wrote: Yeah the shrug is what I am working on and it does stablise me a little, but I am still very unsteady. Perhaps a wider grip is needed also?

You'll want to read this:

http://startingstrength.com/articles/le ... ppetoe.pdf

Also a video demonstration:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/s ... _press_2.0

LawL wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote:lol nearly 70 fuckin pages of "You're doing it wrong!" and if you aren't as obsessed as the rest of the fucking idiots then "You're doing it wrong!"

I know right? How dare these cunts discuss the most effective way to get results.

lol yeah all 2 pages of it. You're on a roll.

[xeno]Julios wrote: I clearly remember my beginner gains - easy and fun, strength would go up each workout. I even got to 180 pounds, although my strength was laughable compared to what it is a couple months ago at 165 pounds.To get to the current figures, I went through several periodization cycles. I don't think it makes sense to classify everything as noob vs beginner gains - and I think you also need to take into account bodyweight when judging whether someone's lifting performance is novice or not.

Chinning 105 pounds is, I think, a touch beyond novice territory.

You don't understand the meaning of the word novice in the weightlifting context. If you can't rep 225 on bench a few times, rep 315 on squat, or 1rm deadlift 405+, then you are a novice in weightlifting. You do not yet have the basic foundation of strength that intermediate/advanced programmes will give benefit to. To whether or not chinning 105 lbs makes you not a novice- if you can bench 405 lbs but can only squat 185 as a healthy, uninjured male, then you are still a beginner. You still have not established yourself a foundation of all-around strength to levels which can be accomplished by almost anyone following a decent training programme and eating enough for 2 years or less-- you are still a novice weightlifter.

So, again: if you are a novice, then it is possible to make gains on two full-body workouts a week. But you will regress and stall if you are not.

feedback wrote:
...

I don't think it's as simple as that - someone can be a novice at squat but an intermediate at bench. Also, someone who is naturally 300 pounds may be a novice but be able to bench 250 for reps.

No-- if you aren't able to pass one of the tests of upper/lower body strength, how could you not be a novice?

The definition of novice is that you can still benefit from novice training. If you only squat 185 but bench 405 then your squat is novice and needs to be trained in a novice way, otherwise you will be short-changing yourself.

If you want to define "novice" as "x" then yes, according to that definition, you can easily divide up people into novice vs non-novice.

But the question is whether these criteria delineate something that is actually meaningful.

In my estimation, the definition of novice strength levels should at least partially reflect their strength relative to their genetic potential.

If a genetically gifted massive man who has never trained walks into a gym and benches 250 pounds for 6 reps, and 8 years later is able to bench 750 pounds for 6 reps, I say that he's a novice when he first walks in.

If you only squat 185 but bench 405 then your squat is novice and needs to be trained in a novice way, otherwise you will be short-changing yourself.

agreed.

I think it's pretty meaningful, since the reason we started talking about novice vs. non-novice in the first place was whether or not you can make gains on 2x a week.

GONNAFISTYA wrote: lol yeah all 2 pages of it. You're on a roll.

It's been discussed for pages on end. Stop being a cunt.

Don Carlos wrote:
Yeah the shrug is what I am working on and it does stablise me a little, but I am still very unsteady. Perhaps a wider grip is needed also?

Not required to shrug. This doesn't let your shoulders sit in place. If you're flexing your traps as hard as you can to support the weight, you can consider the weight to be hanging from the traps instead of sitting on the shoulders. Try to squeeze your shoulder blades together instead of trying to push your arms up. Wider is not as stable, so don't go any wider than you need to.
Keep your shoulders in external rotation.

practice putting your arms straight out to your sides while trying to point your biceps to the rear (with your palms up). Hold that shoulder position, now twist your forearm so your palms face forward, and start to lift your straight arms up in an arc while trying to squeeze your shoulder blades together. That is your overhead position with a snatch.

Also switch to snatch balances instead of overhead squats, they are much more effective and carry over to the catch much better than an overhead squat.
Real good demo of a snatch balance in the first few lifts of this video with Milko Tokola (who is a sick mother fucker btw) You're going to want to sit at the bottom for a few seconds.

LawL wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote: lol yeah all 2 pages of it. You're on a roll.

It's been discussed for pages on end. Stop being a cunt.

I'm sorry am I getting in your way of insulting people?

andyman wrote:
Not required to shrug. This doesn't let your shoulders sit in place. If you're flexing your traps as hard as you can to support the weight, you can consider the weight to be hanging from the traps instead of sitting on the shoulders.

compare figure 3d to 3e:

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/67 ... ifting.pdf (authors = mark rippetoe, lon kilgore, kelly starrett)

This is why you shrug in the overhead position

Also, what do you mean by "hanging from the traps"? If you mean that the traps are helping stabilize the arm, then hell yes, this is what you want.

p.s. Milko is awesome - one of his latest videos had me in tears of laughter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYScDcm9 ... e=youtu.be

GONNAFISTYA wrote: I'm sorry am I getting in your way of insulting people?

Not in the slightest.