Quake3World

Fjoggs wrote:Holy fuck q4 looks awesome, I'll definetly play i.

yeah me2, but im afraid of spending nearly 50 euro and finding out i cant get it loaded @ my radeon 9600pro

i'm more worried about nearly every review saying the mp is sort of wank. it'll apparently take some quick modding to turn this into a good competition platform.

Most people that has actually played it says it kicks ass. So I'll buy it.

quote from someone i know who played it at qcon:

it's decent, that's all that can be said unfortunately

q2mp was pretty wanky out of the box too though, and i still know a lot of people who exclusively play q2. a good tourney mod is all it should need.

qcon was just a test, thing might have changed since then. But of course, OSP is all it takes. :]

from those movies posted in q4disc, it looks like it does have the quake 'feeling' to me, which it should have. I try to imagine what it would look like with a competitive .cfg; blurred walls, green model etc.

but yeah, a demo would be very nice for the hesitating people.

menkent wrote:quote from someone i know who played it at qcon:

it's decent, that's all that can be said unfortunately

q2mp was pretty wanky out of the box too though, and i still know a lot of people who exclusively play q2. a good tourney mod is all it should need.

That's the biased opinion of people being used to playing with OSP who start whining when no bright skin option is available. I'm sure that in terms of gameplay Quake 4 will be awesome.

The pro's complain about there not being enough pro options and the noobs complain about there not being an Onslaught or Bomb mode gametype. Well fuck that. I just want Quake 3 gameplay in a fresh coat.

edit:
and q2 mp being wank out of the box was more related to technical issues. The casual player doesn't care about the rest.

well, no offense, but FUCK the casual player. it's supposed to be on the cpl world tour. if it bombs as a tourney game, it could easily end up as ignored as pk or d3 and never get enough serious community/attention for a something like osp to happen. bright skins aren't even the issue. it's solid netcode, flexible server options, well-balanced weapons, good maps, callvoting refs (etc), and a hundred other tiny things that make a game a good tourney platform. a lot of that will only come after months of play-testing (q3dm6 --> q3dm6tmp --> pro-q3dm6?)... but on the other hand, q2 never really did get fixed- it's still completely orange and kinda buggy.

Yeah, but Q2 did enjoy a rather good sized competitive following. There where a bunch of great tourneys, even if the game itself didn't look well suited for comp. play (but in the end it did, because the game didn't have pure server support, so people played with their own textures and brightskins). You can't do that with Q4 obviously, but I hope a good comp. mod can sort it all out.

menkent wrote:well, no offense, but FUCK the casual player. it's supposed to be on the cpl world tour. if it bombs as a tourney game, it could easily end up as ignored as pk or d3 and never get enough serious community/attention for a something like osp to happen. bright skins aren't even the issue. it's solid netcode, flexible server options, well-balanced weapons, good maps, callvoting refs (etc), and a hundred other tiny things that make a game a good tourney platform. a lot of that will only come after months of play-testing (q3dm6 --> q3dm6tmp --> pro-q3dm6?)... but on the other hand, q2 never really did get fixed- it's still completely orange and kinda buggy.

Have any of the things you mentioned ever stopped Quake 2 and Quake 3 from being popular CPL games? How's plain Q3 with 1.32 installed compare to a game like UT2004 in those aspects?

I don't think the pro community should worry about Q4 being a bad competitive platform. It'll probably be one of the best games for competitive play. Whether that means Q4 is exceptionally flexible in that area or that the overall level among all games is really low is kind of irrelevant. If Q4 is the best current solution then the pro community should be happy.

And lets be honest here, the real hardcore pro players make up only 0.01% of the entire customer base of id Software / Raven

and 95% of the newbies will jump ship for the next sims game the moment it comes out. they're not community, they're voiceless sheep on ffa servers. the pro community shouldn't be happy until it's legitimately good (bugs fixed), because everyone else is just going to want more space maps. being the "least bad" game doesn't lead to a stable community or good competition.

bla bla.

If you feel this way, there's absolutely no reason for any 'competitive' players to move to Quake 4, right? Just stick with Q3. I mean there's years of development, and you don't care about the 'sheep' who will form the majority of players in this new game, so no reason to move.

Actually I'm a little confused why the people 'with voices' moved from Q1. Isn't that a little, I dunno, hypocritical?

nonsense... though a lot of people from quakeworld stayed there through the 2-year reign of q2, q3 was a better mp platform than either quakeworld or q2 even after they were modded. q4 (modded) could be as much better than q3osp as q3 is better than q2. i'm just saying i hope they put enough effort into developing the pc side of q4 to keep people interested enough to bother making a community that lasts as long as q3's did. nobody's sticking qith q3 because it's already dead, but i'd like q4 to last another six years rather than disappearing after one tourney like doom3.

Quake 4 owns, just need brightskins and a few more good maps and we are set

i trust the azer :icon14:
all i need is the demo to be released so i can make sure i get more than 20fps

should be ok. azer said he had constant fps @ 9800 pro using tweaked cfg, despite some drops when facing multiple enemies.

just buy it menk, like i'm gonna do. it may not be wise, but at least i can say i followed my heart :lub:

menkent wrote:nonsense... though a lot of people from quakeworld stayed there through the 2-year reign of q2, q3 was a better mp platform than either quakeworld or q2 even after they were modded. q4 (modded) could be as much better than q3osp as q3 is better than q2. i'm just saying i hope they put enough effort into developing the pc side of q4 to keep people interested enough to bother making a community that lasts as long as q3's did. nobody's sticking qith q3 because it's already dead, but i'd like q4 to last another six years rather than disappearing after one tourney like doom3.

The point I'm making is that since Q3 is open source, and mods have already been heavilty developed, I don't see why Quake 4 needs to be looked at by the competitive community... I mean sure, hundreds of man hours could be poured into Quake 4 to get to a point where it's equal to Quake 3 for comp play, but then you could equally spend those hundreds of hours on Quake 3 and take it to the next level of whatever it is competitive players want.

Also, if Q3 is 'already dead', yet as you say 'FUCK the casual player', where are the competitive players right now? Have they gone along with the sheep onto other games, or have they stuck with the best platform for competitive gaming, which after all the modding/levels, is Q3...

You must be able to see the odd inconsistency I'm trying to get at here. Sorry I can't put it very plainly. I see some of your points, but am still left with this difference between what you're saying (casual players don't matter to the competitive community) and the reality (the competitive community follows new games, not the ones that are best suited for them).

a lot of competetive players got old and don't have time to play anymore, or as much as they could in high school. others have moved to games that are getting tourneys (with prizes)... and the tourneys aren't there because the games are good (*cough*pk*cough*), but the new games get the sponsors and the support of the production companies. id wants to sell new games, not cater to a bunch of people that bought a game back in the 90's. sponsors, particularly the hardware companies like nvidia, will only sponsor things that show off their new $500 cards. q3 lasted incredibly long considering it lost this big-money support as long as three years ago when wcg dropped it. hell, even qcon only had a girls' comp this year.

q4 will sell a gazillion copies, everyone will be fanboyish about it, cpl will use it until someone pays angel to use something else, etc. that's the way it works, and that's fine. i'd just like to see this game be <i>great</i> instead of just better than the latest steaming pile of UT, and it seems to me like they over-emphasized the xbox360 and pc single-player given the insane piles of cash blizzard is making with WoW compared with the standard profit a company expects from moving boxes through Best Buy. it's like they've failed to realize that the optimal business model has changed and we're getting A- work because of it.

I'll be around.
emplate and I are suppose to lan for a week or weekend, whichever it happens to become.

menkent, with some editing q4 rocks, trustme. Only thing i dislike are the usual things, no brightskins, limited fov to 110, also the movement is sometimes a bit tricky.

menkent wrote:a lot of competetive players got old and don't have time to play anymore, or as much as they could in high school. others have moved to games that are getting tourneys (with prizes)... and the tourneys aren't there because the games are good (*cough*pk*cough*), but the new games get the sponsors and the support of the production companies. id wants to sell new games, not cater to a bunch of people that bought a game back in the 90's. sponsors, particularly the hardware companies like nvidia, will only sponsor things that show off their new $500 cards. q3 lasted incredibly long considering it lost this big-money support as long as three years ago when wcg dropped it. hell, even qcon only had a girls' comp this year.

q4 will sell a gazillion copies, everyone will be fanboyish about it, cpl will use it until someone pays angel to use something else, etc. that's the way it works, and that's fine. i'd just like to see this game be <i>great</i> instead of just better than the latest steaming pile of UT, and it seems to me like they over-emphasized the xbox360 and pc single-player given the insane piles of cash blizzard is making with WoW compared with the standard profit a company expects from moving boxes through Best Buy. it's like they've failed to realize that the optimal business model has changed and we're getting A- work because of it.

Alright cool, that's making a lot more sense

I still don't see competition money as a valid reason - after all there's only ever enough for a handful of people to get it and the majority of comp players never see any. But points taken. Thanks for explaining.

the feedback on places like cached.net has been pretty positive... some minor complaints about cvars and weapons that can easily be fixed in a PR or mod. more ominous complaints about the movement and maps being "like UT" sound like the kind of thing that'd get on my nerves too, but maps will happen within a month or so and mods can adjust movement.

the feedback is universally better than d3, so i'll shut up and start saving for a 6800... and a new cpu/mobo. fuck

sorry to but in the conversation so late :P i think quake 4 look a bit to similar to ut2k4, dont you think ? im just going to stick to q3 for the moment.

menkent, after playing Q4 myself I'd say in it's plain form it's a far better MP platform than Quake 3. It adds a slew of new features that have been added to Q3 by mods like OSP. An OSP-like mod for Quake 4 should bring Q4 up to the level where it's excellent for competitive play.

RooKie wrote:sorry to but in the conversation so late :P i think quake 4 look a bit to similar to ut2k4, dont you think ? im just going to stick to q3 for the moment.

Well I'm not too sure about the UT2k4 comparison. Yes, the Rocket Launcher looks like a straight rip from the UT2k4 Rocket Launcher, but it feels and handles completely different. Some of the maps might look a tad UT2k4-ish, but I think there's a good amount of maps that look and feel very Quake like.

Another thing is that while people make the UT2k4 comparison, they do this because it's the "direct" competitor for Quake 4. It has always been Quake versus Unreal. What people seem to miss is similarities to other games from Raven Software.

Some maps and weapons (like the Hyperblaster) remind me very much of Elite Force (which had quite solid multiplayer as well). The Shotgun actually reminds me of Soldier of Fortune (SoF2 had great multiplayer too)

So in some areas I think Quake 4 is more than just a blend of the previous Quake games.