Linux

Post by **Timbo** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:14 pm

shiznit wrote:
Timbo wrote:I love how these threads are almost universally a hive for misinformation :icon23: :icon25: (on both sides).
Maybe you can enlighten us Timbo

Basically, Nautilus isn't what you're used to. Doesn't make it wrong, get over it.

Then there is the," terminals aren't that hard everybody should use terminals" thing. What the fuck? People write user friendly software for a reason, don't drag us back to the dark ages. (FTR I use terminals all the time, but that doesn't mean I have to).

Linux isn't automatically faster than Windows or OS X or whatever. By and large, hardware governs speed, not software. Whoever told you Linux is faster is taking crack. Speed dependent software, such as display drivers, are never gonna be as fast as Windows until they have equal manpower fed into them (which means equal market share). The Gentoo people that like to kid themselves that everything is (significantly) faster for them will do so because they wasted a week compiling all their software.

Linux is not a server OS. It's a very flexible does everything OS.

I suggested that using Nautilus is quite useless since you need to be root in order to do anything like copy a file.

That's complete nonsense. You need to be root to copy something outside your home directory, but you shouldn't need to do that.

x386 doesn't make sense. The x in x86 stands for the 2,3,4,5 etc. Maybe whoever mentioned it first is thinking i386?

The new Ubuntu release is out today. It's pretty good.

Post by **shiznit** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:50 pm

Some good points.

Fair enough I’m not used to Nautilus however I think the older version with the url type browser was more useful. Because it’s easy to copy the directory location and paste it in the terminal, if you happen to be in the directory. Also if it’s a deep directory and you are telling someone where to find something, you could just use Nautilus find the location and copy the directory structure instead of having to retype it.

If you are editing system files, configuring files, etc then you need root access in Nautilus. I was installing doom3 and I was forced to use the terminal to copy all the Pak files because the location of the install required root, then I had to do use terminal again to edit the autoexec because I couldn’t do it from Nautilus, then I had to install a mod using terminal again. Root restricts the user too much and the terminal requires too much work in order to do certain tasks, having to type your password 100x is also a waste of time.

The Linux community (forums & irc) often proclaims that Linux is more stable & more faster then Windows.

Linux does everything, but the Desktop experience is poor. Too much hassle with getting everything to work correctly even if you know what you’re doing; as soon as the hardware changes you have to figure out a different way of installing/configuring.

Yes sorry Seg said x386, it’s i386.

Yes the Ubuntu release is out, I’ll wait till they ship me my free CDs before I try it. I had 5.10 RC anyway.

Post by **Timbo** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:00 am

shiznit wrote:Fair enough I’m not used to Nautilus however I think the older version with the url type browser was more useful. Because it’s easy to copy the directory location and paste it in the terminal, if you happen to be in the directory.

Edit->Preferences->Behaviour->Always open in browser windows

If you are editing system files, configuring files, etc then you need root access in Nautilus.

Maybe I'm just mentally blocking it out since I'm used to it, but I don't remember needing to dick about with Ubuntu's /etc directory.

I was installing doom3 and I was forced to use the terminal to copy all the Pak files because the location of the install required root...

Simple solution is to install D3 in your home directory.

The Linux community (forums & irc) often proclaims that Linux is more stable & more faster then Windows.

The vocal Linux "community" is mostly comprised of 13 year olds who've had Gentoo installed for a month or two and need to brag about their epenis.

Linux does everything, but the Desktop experience is poor. Too much hassle with getting everything to work correctly even if you know what you’re doing; as soon as the hardware changes you have to figure out a different way of installing/configuring.

That's not my experience with Ubuntu*. If you compare Linux where it is now to where it was 2 years ago, it's really pretty straight forward.

I'm not saying Linux is perfect, but I think a lot of your conceptions stem from the fact you're unfamiliar with it. Learning a new OS isn't necessarily easy. I don't use Windows much and I have a really hard time finding things in the control panel sometimes, and I can't stand to be without virtual desktops. That doesn't make Windows wrong.

*I bought a new wireless card recently, the cheapest one I could find. It uses some obscure chipset I'd never heard of. Boot up Ubuntu, put the card in the slot... it starts working. Do the same on Windows XP, I have to feed it a CD, pick a driver from a list of three different drivers that are on the CD, hope I got the right one, reboot... it starts working. Nothing is perfect.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:29 am

well said, sir.

btw, the new Breezy Badger released yesterday is nice.

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:36 am

Edit->Preferences->Behaviour->Always open in browser windows

Cool.

Maybe I'm just mentally blocking it out since I'm used to it, but I don't remember needing to dick about with Ubuntu's /etc directory.

I had to edit grub, xorg, cedega config, and a bunch of other stuff.

Simple solution is to install D3 in your home directory.

Default installers don't put it there, it's a temp solution but I think there still needs to be root access.

I did find a temp solution, enabling root with Nautilus file browser. However I had to open it from a specific shortcut and I had to type in password each time I opened it.

The vocal Linux "community" is mostly comprised of 13 year olds who've had Gentoo installed for a month or two and need to brag about their epenis.

I doubt it, it's not just Gentoo community I've had people in Debian & Ubuntu channels tell me the same thing.

I bought a new wireless card recently, the cheapest one I could find. It uses some obscure chipset I'd never heard of. Boot up Ubuntu, put the card in the slot... it starts working. Do the same on Windows XP, I have to feed it a CD, pick a driver from a list of three different drivers that are on the CD, hope I got the right one, reboot... it starts working. Nothing is perfect.

I had to spend 2 hours installing & recompiling stuff to get 3d support in Debian, granted that Ubuntu only needed a few minutes. Hardware support on most Linux distros is not out of the box.

My main problem is that Linux is just too slow on my computer, I want to use gnome but it's just not as responsive as Windows.

Post by **Timbo** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:01 am

shiznit wrote:I had to edit grub, xorg, cedega config, and a bunch of other stuff.

I never had to edit grub (the installer even spied my Windows partition). Never edited xorg ($ nvidia-glx-config enable -- this is a bit obscure I admit). Don't have cedega or a bunch of other stuff.

Default installers don't put it there, it's a temp solution but I think there still needs to be root access.

loki_setup lets you choose where you install it.

I doubt it, it's not just Gentoo community I've had people in Debian & Ubuntu channels tell me the same thing.

Regardless, my point is that any realist who knows what they're doing isn't going to be making outlandish claims.

Hardware support on most Linux distros is not out of the box.

I'm really talking about Ubuntu only here (although other distros are good too), but Linux has WAY better out the box hardware support than Windows. In Ubuntu's case the 3D support (by which I mean it won't use it by default) is hampered by this aversion to non-free software that it inherited from Debian. I'm all for software being free, but not when the alternative is so poor. The installer should ask "You can have the non-free driver and get 3D acceleration, or the free driver and get poo? Which do you want?". Although that complicates the otherwise trivially simple installer.

My main problem is that Linux is just too slow on my computer, I want to use gnome but it's just not as responsive as Windows.

Yup, you won't get arguments from me, Gnome is quite sluggish. It does an inordinant amount of I/O whenever a process is started. I think they were planning on focusing on performance improvements in one development cycle, but I'm not sure which or whether they still intend to.

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:32 am

I would switch to ubuntu full time if it could do 2 things.

Desktop as fast if not faster then windows.
Support all the windows games and allow me to play them as fast as on windows if not faster.

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:29 am

So Timbo do you use Ubuntu exclusively?

Post by **Timbo** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:18 pm

I have Ubuntu on my laptop and Debian on my desktop. The only reason I don't have Ubuntu on my desktop is because I haven't got around to it yet.

Post by **Iccy (temp)** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:58 pm

Timbo lol

So you like that distro the best huh?

can i ask why? Im going for my linux plus next year and have been torn on which distro to make the switch too. I always liked mandrake, but i know it has so many tools to make things easy that itll rob me of my educational experience.

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:35 pm

I think ubuntu is currently the best because it's

easy to install
only 1 cd
easy to install software apt-get or synaptic
up to date
supports most hardware automatically (I only had to mess around with 3d support)

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:07 pm

I think I'm going to give Kubuntu a try, maybe post a quick review after.

Post by **Timbo** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:12 pm

What shiznit said. In one line, Ubuntu has the highest it-just-works factor of all the distros out there atm.

Post by **raw** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:59 am

I started with RH7.2, then went to Slackware 8,9, and 10, then just recently moved on to Gentoo which I like alot.

Post by **shiznit** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:03 am

I installed it and configured it a bit, I like KDE more but it takes ages to start a program. I'm going to see if I can tweak it, maybe have it load all the libraries at boot. Here is a quick screenshot.

[lvlshot]http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/7594/snapshot15ij.jpg[/lvlshot]

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:59 am

you might want to try Kanotix, which is debian based. it was pretty damn quick, even running just a live cd and 512mb ram.

Post by **shiznit** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:36 am

Well KDE apps seem to crash more then Gnome, I had Kate crash on me twice.

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:44 am

I used the live CD for almost two weeks on my main machine while some parts were on order before i reformatted xp and didn't have any crashing issues :/