That law doesn't allow women to wear their headress in such institutions, they simply aren't given the choice.
You're a smart guy, don't defend the indefensible.
As for honor killings, they are disgusting, and these countries should offer special police protections for individuals who choose to defy their family and live a progressive non-religious life.
bullshit, people can wear those anywhere. you need to get your 'facts' straight. the only reason women arent allowed to wear them, is when they have a position in a government function, to seperate state and church. the reason this woman was killed, is because she CHOSE not to wear it in her own time, so to speak.
you are so biased
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
Pext wrote:huh... that's not my point of view. i thought you might find it interresting to read though.
i actually agree that the scarf banning is not a usefull tool to break up the conservative structure described in the article. the women that are surpressed this way are not even able to get a job that would deny them to wear their scarf.
i'd agree with you if you said that the bannings are expression of some wish for separation from the unknown. i think the conservatives are a bit afraid of the islam. stupid christians
thats bullshit. seperation of state and church, its a common factor in all democracies. thats the reason, nothing else. you dont see christian politicians wearing long toga's now do you?
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
dmmh, muslim girls cannot wear hijabs in public schools. They've expelled muslim girls for defying the law by wearing them.
You should know that these families often have no other choice but to send their children to public schools because they cannot afford private schools.
cant find much of images, but you should take a look at any primary/ secondary school here, and youd know otherwise. The State doesnt prohibit them, but some schools choose to forbid them.
Trust me, you are very wrong on this one
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
· In 1983, the formal ties between the State and the Religions were severed and a Law governing these ties was abolished. Since then, the relations are based on the constitutional principles of freedom of religion and non-discrimination (which implies: equal treatment of various religious groups). No formal recognition of a religious community is required. However, in some specific fields the state facilitates social or cultural activities of religious communities: schools, broadcasting, and spiritual care in prisons and the army. Existing regulations and laws are usually applied to Muslims and, if necessary, adapted to their needs.
On the national level, two organisations now claim to represent a large part of the Muslim communities:
- The National Council of Mosques, in which the Islamic Foundation Netherlands or Diyanet is the dominant organisation
- The Muslim Council of the Netherlands
However, neither of them is recognized as such by the Dutch authorities. Attempts to create a new, more representative body which can speak on behalf of the Muslims, are under way.
Since 1983, direct financial support for religion is seen as a violation of the separation between State and Church. An exception is made for spiritual care in prisons and the army. The Ministries of Justice and Defence have appointed imams beside the Christian pastoral workers.
Education: - More than half of the Dutch primary and secondary schools are state-funded private schools, mostly Christian. Muslim organisations can establish schools and receive funding from the state, if they follow a national curriculum and meet certain numerical standards. So far, 32 Islamic primary schools have been recognised, which train 5 % of the Muslim children living in the Netherlands. According to inspection reports the schools use existing Dutch education materials, which are screened for un-Islamic elements (especially "undecent" pictures). There is a co-ordinating body at the national level, in which 28 Islamic primary schools cooperate : the ISBO, Islamitische Scholen Besturen Organisatie (= Organization of Islamic School Boards).
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
dmmh wrote:
Trust me, you are very wrong on this one
Trust me, I'm not.
you dont live here now do you?
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
Massive Quasars wrote:So you're saying there are state subsidized islamic schools? Or do these islamic schools charge the parents additionally per student?
just because a school is state subsidized, doesnt mean the parents arent charged. education costs more then the government subsidizes. I pay 1500 Euro a year, but I am 6 times as expensive for this one year.....
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
Massive Quasars wrote:So you're saying there are state subsidized islamic schools? Or do these islamic schools charge the parents additionally per student?
just because a school is state subsidized, doesnt mean the parents arent charged. education costs more then the government subsidizes. I pay 1500 Euro a year, but I am 6 times as expensive for this one year.....
If they are charged more in exclusive muslim schools than in regular public schools there will inevitably be some muslim families who cannot afford to send their children to muslim schools. Is that the case?
you are always assuming things like this. this is what generates all this misunderstanding between various ethnic groups over here too: assumption
so zzzzzzzzzz
[i]And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti.[/i]
So then they cost the same? If that is the case, my objections aren't as strong as they would be otherwise. Unfortunately though, that leads to segregation of children along religious lines (in different schools), that's unlikely to create a healthy situation in european society.
R00k wrote:My opinion is you can wear a head scarf all day long if you want to. But if you're joining a private organization, they can ask you not to wear it; if you're getting a drivers license picture, you shouldn't wear it; if you move here, you should not be persecuted for making a choice to not wear it.
Sure it's a custom, but that doesn't justify mercenary killings. What if Jews started killing all the Jewish people who didn't wear their yarmulkes, what would people think of that? They'd think it was fucking barbaric - just like any asshole who will kill his own flesh and blood for not wearing a stupid hat is barbaric.
It's not a Moslim thing, it's a fanatic thing. The sad part is, Moslims are starting to allow the fanatics to speak for them and give the whole people a reputation -- when what they should be doing, at the very least, is speaking out loudly against it anytime a killing like this happens.
At the very most, they should be issuing fatwahs against these lunatics, instead of issuing killing orders against people who write fucking books.
The Moslim faith today has the same problem as the Catholic church -- its leadership. None of them have the balls to stand up against tradition.
Massive Quasars wrote:Believe it or not Splish, some muslim women wear the hijab without having a male figure in their life force it on them.
Yeah, maybe 0.1%.All others have been indoctrinated.
You make it so easy on yourself to say all this freedom crap, while over here this 'freedom' leads to nothing but suppression and murder. I'm sure you feel real great sanctioning the primary tool of the people who are responsible for that girl's death.
Religion is mostly about indoctrination, Splish. Children are taught the religious beliefs of their parents by their parents in hope that when those children are parents they would do the same thing. The alternative to letting societies freely progress and shed the cycle of religious indoctrination is to have government enforced actively anti-religious policies. That latter option is essentially what you're advocating.
