Fjo3tourney1 - ECP - Final Beta

[Oeloe]

Did you test the bot performance? It's rather unplayable with botskill 6-100 now because of the choppiness (high CPU usage perhaps?). With botskill 5 bots are truely retarded though (anarki kept looking up where he last saw me while i was standing in front of him with gauntlet... ).

Btw it's: manoeuvre.

[Fjoggs]

Hmm, I didn't test the cpm bots. And about performance, due to the caulk hull, I can't optimize it more, because it's a bit open.
I made it after I made the map itself, because I didn't think I'd finish it. :P

[Todtsteltzer]

...
********************
ERROR: SHADER_MAX_VERTEXES hit in FillCloudySkySide()

********************
----- Server Shutdown -----
==== ShutdownGame ====
AAS shutdown.
---------------------------

So it happens here too. Not after 4 seconds but immediately when grappling to certain spots (highest point you can grapple to in the core room.

I already noticed this map is quite performance heavy; it looks like it even surpasses the amount of shader operations on vertexes the Q3 engine can handle, when you grapple to that high spot. It didn't happen when going there with noclip though, i believe... I'll try it with flight. ...

This problem occured in beta 3 already (Beta 3 thread). Although it doesn't happen when spectating anymore it happens with noclip now (above the lower RL).

[v1l3]

Too many maps in baseq3 to be able to read the error probably?

Nope...no maps in baseq3 but Fjo3tourney1. At least you got the error message though.

[foralarx2k3]

Fjoggs,

This is a very nice map. (Couldn't resist the download seeing Lunaran's Quake II waste textures). I don't know you from Adam, so take what I post here as you find it. They are my opinions and that alone. I will not be offended in any way if you choose to ignore all suggestions.... like I said it's a very nice map already.

1. The large central room with the grenade launcher feels extremely exposed and very barren. There is nothing there to pull me into that area of the map. This was proven in playing the map for a few rounds as I felt no desire what so every to ever cross that area of the map at ground level. Meaning a large section of the map went by unused. I am not sure how to combat that. Years ago I used to have a mod that would allow you to add new / remove items to a map in game on the fly whilst playing it. That would have been useful here as I could have tried putting something in that area to give a reason for going through there. A shotgun maybe?

2. The small sloped ledges by the MH are a real nice addition and although they are easy to use with Pro-Mode physics to get up to the SG ledge it's not so easy in VQ3 to the point that I might not even consider attempting it in a game. It'd be nice to see that resolved somehow. (That little clipped rock by the mega really is annoying).

3. The ledge above the doorway in the MH area provides a nice alternative route from the RG to the armour shard corridor without triggering the lift. Unfortunately this is restricted by a bit of wall that sticks out there is it possible to do something about this.

4. Speaking of the Armour Shard corridor, when coming flying down there towards the SG, I seem to more often than not snag that outcropped wall by the lift. That's very annoying when in full flight / combat.

5. It is possible to jump onto the two lights in the RA room on the back wall below the LG. I have no idea why anyone would want to do this but still ... might be worth a little snipperdy clip clip.

6. I sooooo desperately wanted a little ledge to get back and forth between the YA and the RG.

>>> Here's a little Fjo3tourney1.dm_68 demo of points 2, 3, & 5. <<<

Thanks for taking the time to read. Like I said, I'm one player and it's your map ... either way I'm gonna be downloading and playing the final

Thanks

Fora.

PS. As it's been such a long time since I posted here ... hi all

[Oeloe]

1. The large central room with the grenade launcher feels extremely exposed and very barren. There is nothing there to pull me into that area of the map.

Did you find the LG room up there? I didn't even know it was there the first time i played an FFA on it on the Q3W server.

Btw you can get from the lift bridge to RG by jumping from the little curved ledge. Not directly from YA though.

[foralarx2k3]

Did you find the LG room up there? I didn't even know it was there the first time i played an FFA on it on the Q3W server.

Yup, thanks found it pretty quickly soon as I saw hunter was the bot of choice. Though surprisingly, she doesn't seem to use it that much on here. Maybe I keep her away from it too much

Did ya see the demo from my first post you'll notice I go up there to show where the two lights are you can camp on.

Whilst I'm replying ...... On that first point in my previous post.... I've realised I haven't been that clear. I'm talking about the ground level, where the two 25 healths are, not the top level where the GL is.

Btw you can get from the lift bridge to RG by jumping from the little curved ledge. Not directly from YA though.

erm, yeah I knew that .... not .... cheers for the top tip.

[Foo]

It's possible to get across to the railgun from YA if you're coming round past the GL and RL to the YA.

In cpm o'course.

[foralarx2k3]

yup I guessed that was the case Foo as I'm fairly close to being able to do it in VQ3 just can't keep the momentum or have the turning on a dime ability like in CPM.

As you're a fairly accomplised CPMer can you answer the following for me.

In CPM:-

1) Using the steps from the MH is it possible to reach the YA ledge.
2) Using the steps from the 50H / RL corridor is is possible to get up on the upper RA bridge.
3) Using the slope in the main room next to the two 25Hs is it possible to get up to the GL.

All without the use of the RL/GL? (Just trying to get an idea of how much easier in CPM this map is over VQ3).

[Foo]

Yes No Yes in that order

At least, I haven't managed up to the bridge.

Trying the same jumps in OSP Promode yields different results - you get much less height.

[foralarx2k3]

Thanks for that Foo. (Course you knew I meant upper RL bridge didn't you on point 2 - /me blushes - RA/RL similiar see).

[Oeloe]

just can't keep the momentum or have the turning on a dime ability like in CPM.

(Just trying to get an idea of how much easier in CPM this map is over VQ3).

I'd say 'turning on a dime' is an exaggeration. Really tight turns are possible but make you lose a lot of speed in CPMa. In QW and the Q4W mod you can do a 360 in midair without losing momentum.

Why don't you watch Fjoggs' vid of the possible tricks on his map. I haven't managed to do the RG->YA and MH->YA stairjumps but most of the other ones are easy.

[foralarx2k3]

Oeloe, Thanks for the insight on QW and Q4W (Both of which I've never tried out).

I missed Fjoggs xvid link completely... thanks for pointing that out as well .. woulda saved a couple of newb to CPMA question posts from me.

Whilst reading back through the thread I realised I'd also missed Foo's comment on the central area....

Last... I'm not sure on the GL placement. It feels like there's too many weapons on the upper area and not enough down below. Perhaps having it down in the very center area may give the down player more oomph.

Thinking about that I'd say I have to agree with the sentiment of putting the GL down below which would make my suggestion of another SG down there a mute point.

I also had a thought about VQ3 and that mega health to SG jump/climb. Would it be possible to make that light in the wall stick out abit. A VQ3 player could then use the top of it, in combination with the wall stubs (for want of a better word) to climb up to the SG level. I realise that's a big ask at this late stage and is simply just a thought.

Regards

Fora.

[Oeloe]

I had a thought about the RL-RG corridor. It seems that quite a lot of frags are made there and it has a long line of sight. It's something that too many maps have imho. Perhaps it would be nicer to make that hallway shorter and a dead end with a (one way?) teleporter, to LG for example (just an idea). Battle could be more centered about the core room and MH perhaps. I think it should be possible to make battles on your map more dynamic (i.e. forcing more interesting confrontations) Camping RA to wait for it to spawn is a bit too easy perhaps. With a tele exit at LG that would be different.

[Fjoggs]

Whoha! A lot of new posts here!
Hey Fora, very long time no see.

I'll watch your demo and see what I can do. I bet I'll move the GL down to the lower floor in the centerroom, sounds reasonable.

About the trickjumps, here are some more jumps.
Fjoggis-Tricks-Fjo3tourney1.zip
Demo1: Two simple, yet usable doublejumps in the main lower areas.
Demo2: The run Foo was talking about. GL->YA->RG.
Demo3: Not very useable double jump, but I have used it in match. Good for snagging both 25H and fly directly to GL.
Demo4: From the ground up, jumping to GL.
Demo5: Uh, not do-able in match, since you don't have PG, I just thought it was a fun jump to do.
Demo6: MH-stairs to the RL brigde.

The 50H stairs to RL brigde ain't possible. Stairjumps doesn't give you much more height, mostly speed.

Oeloe:
Hmm, about the teleporter idea, I need to think a bit more about that. In some way I like it, others I don't. I'll play around with some ideas.

[Oeloe]

w00t! Finally made the stairjump from MH to YA. :icon31: Practice pays off. Edit: first time LG stairs->MH at cpm3a too today. :icon25:

[foralarx2k3]

Hey Fora, very long time no see.

I'll watch your demo and see what I can do. I bet I'll move the GL down to the lower floor in the centerroom, sounds reasonable.

Hey Fjoggs. Thanks for taking the time out to reply and consider things for me. I'm very touched you'd do this.

About the trickjumps, here are some more jumps........

w00t! Finally made the stairjump from MH to YA. :icon31: Practice pays off. Edit: first time LG stairs->MH at cpm3a too today. :icon25:

Aaaaaarrghh, it's contagious I just know it is... It must have been something I touched in your map .. or it's in the air ... all I know is your map isn't out of BETA testing and I caught the CPMA bug (I'm downloading the latest full version now as I type this) ... yes I who was once a lofty Jolt European Division 1 RA3 player. ... playing some of the best RA3 players in Europe .... blah, blah, blah .... have finally succumbed to the call of the dark side.

Edit: Jez, there's more documentation for this thing than my mates got for his BMW and that's saying something. Gonna be here all night getting meself setup with a decent config. ... and then it's onto learning those luuuverly slick movements.

[Foo]

Aaaaaarrghh, it's contagious I just know it is... It must have been something I touched in your map .. or it's in the air ... all I know is your map isn't out of BETA testing and I caught the CPMA bug (I'm downloading the latest full version now as I type this) ... yes I who was once a lofty Jolt European Division 1 RA3 player. ... playing some of the best RA3 players in Europe .... blah, blah, blah .... have finally succumbed to the call of the dark side.

Edit: Jez, there's more documentation for this thing than my mates got for his BMW and that's saying something. Gonna be here all night getting meself setup with a decent config. ... and then it's onto learning those luuuverly slick movements.

I'll givya a game whenever you fancy.

You'll be dissapointed tho - I'm not xfoo, just regular foo

[dzjepp]

What's with the horrible r_speeds? It's like you stripped out all the hinting from the previous build.

[Fjoggs]

What? The speeds are "way" better then the previous build.

[dzjepp]

I was just playing, dipping into 30-40fps a lot of the time.

[dzjepp]

Something might be fucked on my side you reckon?

[Fjoggs]

Eh, If they actually are worse then it was, then yes, something is definetly wrong. If you haven't actually checked the r_speeds 1, then it's lower.

[dzjepp]

I initially had the crazy idea that maybe I didn't get rid of the right map at first (previous beta) and somehow maybe they where being loaded twice, but alas I can't find a trace of the old one when I checked.

[Fjoggs]

Or, more likely, you forgot to turn off that memhog porn you're watching!