Quake3World

Best explaination I've seen is Djbob's hint tutorial. (aka around here as Digibob, or also Sir hides a lot)

Just a preliminary comment on the latest version: you don't need to include the md3s in your pk3. You only need to distribute the textures for the models.

Back later with comments on the map itself.

thanks Anwulf, its little things like this you can miss without the support of folks like you.

:icon14:

Developing great....

I like the rooms you have added, polishing the layout very fine.

One thing I miss is a classic itemset!
I don't like the current one with only RA and MH.
I also don't like the current positions of the main armors.
I would like to see a 2YA-MH setting.
I'll see if I can come up with a itemconfig soon.
Maybe a second RL would also add to the balance... especially in CPMA.

I have never seen a "first map" with those qualities layoutwise.
It shows that you are a player who knows the game very well.

The teleconnections work also IMO. Clearly defined.
On the other hand I don't like the amount of JPs.
JPs can destroy a proper layout, by slowoing down the fast paced gameplay...

More comments soon. Got to play some mroe games...

Keep it up!

Thanks for the feedback Summatra. All your comments are valid points and I will try to address those as I progress. I did have a much heavier item layout.

RA and RL switched, YA on the stairs down to the plasma. 2nd YA outside in the MH area next to the stairs from the SG room, 2nd RL where the armour shards are out there.

But after a couple of games I just felt it was too heavy for the size of the map.

Need to have a real think on the jumppads ... not sure what to do in some cases there.

Thanks for the compliment on the layout. I've had some fine pieces of art to guide me on the way .. yours included

Looking forward to what you come up with item wise.

Regards

Fora.

It all seemed to run fairly fluently, and for ffa two bots seem to be good for this size of map.

Although the bots use the JP to the MH, they don't seem much interested in heading along the walkway. They'll use the TP from the PG area and then head down the stairs or grab the LG.

I don't think the JPs are a big issue unless sumatra's thinking that they don't suit CPMA. They don't really slow gameplay down that much. I'd say that where you jump up beside the angel statue to get to the walkway slows things down, if you want to get up at that point. I might suggest that the JP to the MH is replaced with (curved) stairs. I'd also prefer steps up from the LG rather than that JP in the corner.

At some stage, if the medkit survives, I'd suggest placing a canopy of some sort over it to prevent experimental rocket jumping to see if you can get onto the roof.

Lose the mirror. It's an irritating distraction.

I'm not sure that you need doors in the map. From the PG area, for example, the texture contrasted insufficiently with the wall so that I tended to head down the steps and either TP out or take the JP, and overlook the door altogether.

Can you do something about reducing the size of the clip brush around the model that's opposite the steps down to the RG area. Or better still, move it out of the way. I got annoyed by taking splash damage from the RL because of some invisible barrier as I was trying to pot the bots heading down the stairs.

I might be inclined to rethink having the 25 health inside the RG room and then the 50 health near the lava trough just outside it. The two seem a little close together. What about placing the 50 where the MH is; the MH in the "window" next to the angel; and the 25 where the 50 was. It's a small map, though, and trying to get items in a certain config without feeling that you're overdoing things can be difficult to achieve.

I did spot a little z-fighting, but the map's not in a sufficiently advanced state for that to be an issue just yet.

Hey Anwulf,

Many thanks for the detailed feedback.

I'm not sure why they don't seem interested in that walkway but I have noticed that myself. I've only seen the bots on that part of the walk way a couple of times (usually in a 1-on-1 situation where they have just come up the stairs to the ledge and picked up the health and armour shards and in doing so engaged either me or the other bot around the mega-health area). I've yet to read cardigans bot tutorial so maybe that will assist me there.

On the jumppads end I like the ideas of curved stairs instead of the megahealth one and replacing the lg jumppad as well. I might also be able to do something with the large one to the back PG courtyard as well but we'll see how that one goes. The one into the mirrored hallway I think is gonna stay though. And speaking of the mirror ... hmmm.... I'll consider that one.... my daughters both love it and you know girls and mirrors

Re: medikit canopy .. good idea. Actually wondered if anybody was gonna bother looking for it... not that it's well hidden... for others info ... it's above the doorway by the Grenade Launcher.

Re: the doors. First off, the ones by the LG started out as an experiment, as in could I follow bubbas "how to make a door" tutorial. Then thats where the mirror came in. The idea was to try and catch a player out by thinking as they came through the doors, from the LG, that there was another player facing them. But like you said that's a minor distraction and a big preformance hit and once you know it's there ... it gets kinda old quickly.

My thinking on the doors down by the RG / PG area was to stop the RG player getting the drop on the PG player and trying to even the odds a little.... after a few rounds though I'm not sure it matters so again I'll consider that one as well.

Re: Clip brush around the bloodstone model. No problem .. after a couple of games myself I noticed that as well...v.annoying....I may even lose that model altogether or move it over somewhat.

Re: Health issue in RG area. ... yup agreed again.. that 25 health was a last minute decision and like I said nothings anywhere near final so thanks for the pointer .. I'll stew on that one somemore along with the rest of the item loading.

The Z-fighting you're talking about ... I assume you mean the brush overlaps near the GL ... I noticed them just after uploading alpha2 ... anyways, those are all fixed up already and ready for the next installment.

Speaking of next installment I'll probably make that the first beta version, cause peeps are talking item layout already.

scourge34 wrote:Best explaination I've seen is Djbob's hint tutorial. (aka around here as Digibob, or also Sir hides a lot)

Thanks for the pointer Scourge. :icon14:

Into the brink once more my friends......

Fora.

OK, I've taken on board some comments here, made a few tweaks and hey presto, we have my first ever beta. Linkage as usual in the first post.

Hope you all enjoy it.

Regards

Fora.

It's certainly fast and furious. The stairs in place of the JPs definitely help that and the map has, obviously, excellent connectivity. I quite like maps where I can catch bots by taking a different path and surprising them.

Move the PG away from the stairs just a little. It looks cramped where it is. I'm wondering whether you need two YAs in a map this size since I was able to pick both up several times during the course of play.

Think about a custom sky. The shadows being cast on the LG/MH side of the map are a little dull. Possibly, that can be fixed by using some switch with q3map2, although I must admit I haven't kept up with those.

The bots play the map pretty well, although the dozy sods kept falling into that lava trap part way down the stairs. I didn't think they were that thick. They have a bit of a mania for the TP, but I'm not sure what you can do about that. Frag them, I guess.

I think the style of the map needs a little work. It's still looking like an alpha rather than a beta, and the architecture feels boxy. Since you're using plant models, you might want to use trisouping on the area where the YA is just near the launch pad to give it a more organic feel. Same with the spot where the LG is.

If parts of the brickwork have come away, try to make the missing parts match the edges of the brick, and possible add a little rubble underneath the holes.

Add some decorative features to the walls which are otherwise flat and bare. A trim wouldn't hurt and few pilasters or some other sort of feature would possibly help. Try to add something decorative to the roof such as some faux chimneys or a small tower.

The gameplay is decent enough, but the visuals are in need of some work.

Thanks for the feedback Anwulf, your suggestions along with other peeps pushs me to learn new tricks in the editor all the time so thanks for taking the time out to encourage me along.

Ok let's break down your post:-

Move the PG away from the stairs just a little. It looks cramped where it is. I'm wondering whether you need two YAs in a map this size since I was able to pick both up several times during the course of play.

Yup I see your point re: PG... I'll have a think on that. As with all other items on the map, they are all up for discussion so I'll have a think on the YA's. I'm sure it won't be the only thing I change / remove.

Think about a custom sky. The shadows being cast on the LG/MH side of the map are a little dull. Possibly, that can be fixed by using some switch with q3map2, although I must admit I haven't kept up with those.

The custom sky was already on my list and I've still got to tweak the lighting somewhat.

The bots play the map pretty well, although the dozy sods kept falling into that lava trap part way down the stairs. I didn't think they were that thick. They have a bit of a mania for the TP, but I'm not sure what you can do about that. Frag them, I guess.

The lava pit should be an easy enough one to sort out, I can just stick a "bot do not enter" brush over it, and hopefully that will solve the problem. I have to admit I never really noticed them teleport that much in my games. So, I'll have a watch of the bots and see if I can't figure out what makes them so TP happy, my guess is they are attracted to something either side of the teleporter.

I think the style of the map needs a little work. It's still looking like an alpha rather than a beta, and the architecture feels boxy. Since you're using plant models, you might want to use trisouping on the area where the YA is just near the launch pad to give it a more organic feel. Same with the spot where the LG is.

If parts of the brickwork have come away, try to make the missing parts match the edges of the brick, and possible add a little rubble underneath the holes.

Add some decorative features to the walls which are otherwise flat and bare. A trim wouldn't hurt and few pilasters or some other sort of feature would possibly help. Try to add something decorative to the roof such as some faux chimneys or a small tower.

The gameplay is decent enough, but the visuals are in need of some work.

If the gameplay is there then I'm a happy bunny. I agree it needs work on the visuals, I'll bare your suggestions in mind and see what I can come up for the next release.

I quite like maps where I can catch bots by taking a different path and surprising them.

I couldn't help but smile at the thought of a bot being surprised, but I do know what you mean and I hope you enjoyed the games

Regards

Fora.

OK, I'm wrapping this one up folks, as it started out as a test anyway, see the first post in the thread for screenies and download link.

Enjoy

Fora.