Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:34 am
Your misaligned textures (and poor choice of texture ensemble in general) say otherwise...poub_ wrote:low expecations. good if that works for you. it doesnt for me, hope it never will.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:24 am
^^^Ouch. Damn.
Now granted, I'm less enthusiastic about new Q3 maps in general than I used to be (I'm just not as into Q3 these days), but my reaction when I first saw the thread went something like this:
"Oh cool, a new map from poub--I wonder what it's like. I'm busy, but maybe I'll d/l and check it out if the screenies look cool."
*clicks on thread*
"What? No screenies"
*reads*
"A downloadable 3 meg PDF? wtf? Guy's gonna get hassled. I wonder what the map looks like? I guess I could download the PDF...hmmn...do I have the reader on this machine...not sure...eh, screw it. I wonder if there's any ice cream left?"
*wanders off to freezer*
Maybe I'm just a gigantic douchebag, but judging from the thread, I'm not alone. Contrast this with *clicks on thread-->glances at screenie-->clicks download.*
My $0.02: If you want to present your map in a very controlled way (e.g. via PDF), cool. That's entirely your choice to do that. But I think your use of "effective" above is a bit suspect, and I have to wonder how many downloads you missed out on.poub_ wrote:your first point is exactly why the pdf is so effective. Most people dont know pdfs for maps yet, so they download, maybe a little weirded out, but then they get a pretty nice presentation and think "woah this [map] looks cool" and download the map.
Now granted, I'm less enthusiastic about new Q3 maps in general than I used to be (I'm just not as into Q3 these days), but my reaction when I first saw the thread went something like this:
"Oh cool, a new map from poub--I wonder what it's like. I'm busy, but maybe I'll d/l and check it out if the screenies look cool."
*clicks on thread*
"What? No screenies"
*reads*
"A downloadable 3 meg PDF? wtf? Guy's gonna get hassled. I wonder what the map looks like? I guess I could download the PDF...hmmn...do I have the reader on this machine...not sure...eh, screw it. I wonder if there's any ice cream left?"
*wanders off to freezer*
Maybe I'm just a gigantic douchebag, but judging from the thread, I'm not alone. Contrast this with *clicks on thread-->glances at screenie-->clicks download.*
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:05 am
I dont have acrobat reader. I have no means of opening a pdf file. I've never had a situation that required me to HAVE to open one.poub_ wrote:
it is. pdf is easy and simple, everybody has acrobat reader, it's clean, compatible and consistent with the way i want to present it. this is not so with any editable txt file or some html garbage.
Because of this, I didn't download the map. I just wasn't curious enough to see what the hullaballo is about.
I'd have to say that when it comes to the customer (the person you're trying to get to download this map to provide feedback on) simplicity and ease is extremely important. Even if YOU have to go through the extra trouble to make the clients happy, it should be done. Of course, I shouldn't be talking with the state of my last thread.... :icon32:
"The customer is always right!"
[EDIT] Just a thought: you could have easily calmed the irate folks of the forums here by posting even just one little screenshot with the img tags or even providing a link to a jpg in the time it took you to write those replies explaining why you want to use pdf files.
[/EDIT]
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:43 am
If you can't be bothered to at least post a couple of screenshots then I can't be bothered to download and test your map...simple.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:59 am
Icecream? where? what flavour... count me in, I'll bring Team Amercia round and we can laugh our asses of eating icecreampjw wrote:... I wonder if there's any ice cream left?"
*wanders off to freezer*
Seconded.Maybe I'm just a gigantic douchebag, but judging from the thread, I'm not alone. Contrast this with *clicks on thread-->glances at screenie-->clicks download.*
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:00 am
Coincidences are cool. :icon31:riddla wrote:bunch of slack-jawed whiny faggots in this thread.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:41 pm
Yeah, I know. I've been hiding under my desk the whole time hugging my knees, rocking gently back and forth. If you hear any whimpering, that would be me.Kat wrote:Aye oh the shame of being associated with the use of PDF files (and al3n)!*puts paper bag over head and hides in a corner*
And I suppose working at you-know-where has absolutely nothing to do with this?pjw wrote:Now granted, I'm less enthusiastic about new Q3 maps in general than I used to be (I'm just not as into Q3 these days)
That's true. I did end up doing something very similar and only downloaded the map much later to see what the discussion was all about. Otherwise, I probably would have forgot. I would at least post up 2 or 3 screenshots and perhaps put the rest in a PDF if at all. Screenshots give you instant exposure, while just text on a forum makes you think, "meh... next..."pjw wrote:"A downloadable 3 meg PDF? wtf? Guy's gonna get hassled. I wonder what the map looks like? I guess I could download the PDF...hmmn...do I have the reader on this machine...not sure...eh, screw it. I wonder if there's any ice cream left?"
*wanders off to freezer*
That reminds me, I still have a couple of chocolate ice cream popsicles in the freez... I'll be back...
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:23 pm
Actually you were right, I should have posted screenshots. I promise there will be screenshots next time I release sth on q3w. I'm sorry about that.
"Your misaligned textures (and poor choice of texture ensemble in general) say otherwise..."
"He was ignorant of my other faults else he would not have mentioned these alone."
And I resent the statement that the texture ensemble is poor. It's actually great. Not to mention lighting! Choices have to be made, and the most beautiful, perfect maps lie idle and unplayed on some lost servers in cyberspace, all effort for naught. That was not what I wanted for my map, therefore I put a limit on how much time to invest in which area of mapping.
"Your misaligned textures (and poor choice of texture ensemble in general) say otherwise..."
"He was ignorant of my other faults else he would not have mentioned these alone."
And I resent the statement that the texture ensemble is poor. It's actually great. Not to mention lighting! Choices have to be made, and the most beautiful, perfect maps lie idle and unplayed on some lost servers in cyberspace, all effort for naught. That was not what I wanted for my map, therefore I put a limit on how much time to invest in which area of mapping.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:02 pm
34 posts and no real feedback on the actual map.
Now I realize this is supposed to be final, but here's a demo of some nitpicky stuff if you want it poub.
As a summary of the demo, I love the color coded rooms, layout seems really good (though I have no way of testing w/o 7 other ppl to play tdm), there's some places you bump your head, but overall the map seems very good. Noting your playtesters, I'm guessing the TDM gameplay is as good as it looks. Hopefully this map will get picked up for the new CPM mappacks.
Now I realize this is supposed to be final, but here's a demo of some nitpicky stuff if you want it poub.
As a summary of the demo, I love the color coded rooms, layout seems really good (though I have no way of testing w/o 7 other ppl to play tdm), there's some places you bump your head, but overall the map seems very good. Noting your playtesters, I'm guessing the TDM gameplay is as good as it looks. Hopefully this map will get picked up for the new CPM mappacks.Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:20 pm
Thx wvw watched it right away.
I agree with your picks mostly, the top of the boxes and the tight stairs. The way up to BS from the back is very cool.. missed on that idea... grmbl. Epiphanies sometimes come late, that will pull together the BS room nicely, excellent call. The headbumps.. many people complained about the one at tele-exit but it was the architecturally sane decision. The one from Mega to Rail is intentional so you dont just jump down onto rail, bump once on the lower stair and you're in the next room. I'd find a different solution now though for the tele exit I think. Let's see, IF there's *another* version coming out *wink wink* I'll try and put those fixes in
Btw there is a second rl, it's not marked as RL location though I think, part of "Lava YA". And quad is probably reminiscent of cpm18r, with the pillars and slime pools.
watched it right away.I agree with your picks mostly, the top of the boxes and the tight stairs. The way up to BS from the back is very cool.. missed on that idea... grmbl. Epiphanies sometimes come late, that will pull together the BS room nicely, excellent call. The headbumps.. many people complained about the one at tele-exit but it was the architecturally sane decision. The one from Mega to Rail is intentional so you dont just jump down onto rail, bump once on the lower stair and you're in the next room. I'd find a different solution now though for the tele exit I think. Let's see, IF there's *another* version coming out *wink wink* I'll try and put those fixes in
Btw there is a second rl, it's not marked as RL location though I think, part of "Lava YA". And quad is probably reminiscent of cpm18r, with the pillars and slime pools.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:38 pm
I'm so glad to see that the GD crowd has begun to stumble out of their home long enough to wow us with their witty commentary.
Poub, I don't have any nasty reasons why I don't like the .pdf, just a simple one: I'm on dial-up, and doubling the size of the map to see a pic is troublesome. I don't need a lot of pics, just one would be nice so I know if it's something that would be fun for me to play.
I know that not many gamers are on dial-up anymore, but there are still some, and for us a 3 meg download is a big commitment!
That being said, I'm going to download the map in hopes that it's my type of map. I'll skip the .pdf.
thanks,
json
Poub, I don't have any nasty reasons why I don't like the .pdf, just a simple one: I'm on dial-up, and doubling the size of the map to see a pic is troublesome. I don't need a lot of pics, just one would be nice so I know if it's something that would be fun for me to play.
I know that not many gamers are on dial-up anymore, but there are still some, and for us a 3 meg download is a big commitment!
That being said, I'm going to download the map in hopes that it's my type of map. I'll skip the .pdf.
thanks,
json
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:36 am
Eh? most of those 'GD' people are either mappers or modders or such themselves. Me being one of them. Maybe you should break out of your shell and see the real world once in a while. It's not pretty and lovable as it's usually painted in here. Yeah, I think a couple of the comments could have been better worded. But, that is the nature of the business when dealing with an ever narrowing community. The fans are getting farther and fewer between and harder to please. If egos are going to be bruised maybe they should be kept at home.schwim wrote:I'm so glad to see that the GD crowd has begun to stumble out of their home long enough to wow us with their witty commentary.
I for one think he should have posted a couple screenshots and made the .pdf an optional dl for those that liked the map and want more info. Not as the only source of images and info on the map.
That being said, I don't really play those modes, but I'll download it anyway and give it a try.
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:27 pm
Well scourge, I wasn't aware! I've pulled down my butterfly wallpaper, and I've taken to heart what you've said. I'll begin practicing "real world" etiquette now:
Thanks for letting me know sooner, you stupid fucking piece of shit.
And Poub, your map fucking sucks, you faggot, and I hope you die in a fire.
Wow, you're right. In this real-world hard core enviroment that is Q3 mapping, this is really how things have to happen.
FWIW, it has nothing to do with egos. It has to do with the fact that people look like juvenile dipshits when they try to impress a forum with the words their mothers won't let them say, that's all.
thanks,
json
Thanks for letting me know sooner, you stupid fucking piece of shit.
And Poub, your map fucking sucks, you faggot, and I hope you die in a fire.
Wow, you're right. In this real-world hard core enviroment that is Q3 mapping, this is really how things have to happen.
FWIW, it has nothing to do with egos. It has to do with the fact that people look like juvenile dipshits when they try to impress a forum with the words their mothers won't let them say, that's all.
thanks,
json
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:02 pm
Ya know, you could have easily made your point by responding to a maturely-worded post in a similar manner, rather than acting exactly like the "juvenile dipshits" that you're complaining about because you disagreed with someone. You're not helping.
Folks, poub was gracious enough to admit that he might have made a mistake, and it would be nice if people were to:
a) give him additional feedback on his map in this thread, let the lack of screenshots alone already, and quit with the dramabombs, or
b) shut up.
I would take it as a personal favor if people wouldn't post in this thread again unless it's about the map. kthx
(And yes, I'll be posting feedback a bit later. Other than that, I'm shutting up as well.)
Folks, poub was gracious enough to admit that he might have made a mistake, and it would be nice if people were to:
a) give him additional feedback on his map in this thread, let the lack of screenshots alone already, and quit with the dramabombs, or
b) shut up.
I would take it as a personal favor if people wouldn't post in this thread again unless it's about the map. kthx
(And yes, I'll be posting feedback a bit later. Other than that, I'm shutting up as well.)
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:33 pm
Take it to email, IM, or The Void please, unless you want to comment on the map. Thanks.
-pjw
-pjw
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:37 pm
You're right and I aplogize. That was pretty uncharacteristic of me in here.
On the map, as I said I don't play cpma so this will all be aesthetic. Mostly texture alignment and odd looking things.
Maybe it's just me, but this pillar looks like it needs some kind of trim at the top and bottom.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub2.jpg[/lvlshot]
This looks cut off and not finished
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub3.jpg[/lvlshot]
Maybe you could change the angles on these
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub4.jpg[/lvlshot]
To look more like this maybe?
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub5.jpg[/lvlshot]
I think this might look better with all the stripes going the same way. Just personal opinion.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub6.jpg[/lvlshot]
One more little nitpick.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub7.jpg[/lvlshot]
Other than the headbumping mentioned already, the map feels pretty smooth and easy to get around in. Minor things mostly.
On the map, as I said I don't play cpma so this will all be aesthetic. Mostly texture alignment and odd looking things.
Maybe it's just me, but this pillar looks like it needs some kind of trim at the top and bottom.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub2.jpg[/lvlshot]
This looks cut off and not finished
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub3.jpg[/lvlshot]
Maybe you could change the angles on these
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub4.jpg[/lvlshot]
To look more like this maybe?
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub5.jpg[/lvlshot]
I think this might look better with all the stripes going the same way. Just personal opinion.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub6.jpg[/lvlshot]
One more little nitpick.
[lvlshot]http://www.jwivie.com/screens/poub7.jpg[/lvlshot]
Other than the headbumping mentioned already, the map feels pretty smooth and easy to get around in. Minor things mostly.
Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:51 pm
one too many last night, Scourgeh?scourge34 wrote:You're right and I aplogize. That was pretty uncharacteristic of me in here.
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:36 am
Okay, I finally got around to giving this a look tonight. Looks like scourge and wviperw caught most of the nitpicky stuff re: textures and headbanginess. I also like the suggestion of the ramp up back to BS.
About the only other suggestion like that I'd add is something that rgoer alluded to earlier--there are a few textures that would look a lot better if they were fit to faces, rather than just wrapped around corners or across edges. I realize this won't work in all places, and, yeah, it takes a fair amount of time to do it right, but it would make the map look cleaner in places. A couple of examples:
In this shot, that texture would look nicer if it was just fit cleanly (1x2) to that face, rather than wrapping around the corner a bit before reaching the seam. Same here:
You could fit both of those texs, and have them end at the corner, rather than wrapping. You get the idea.
I had fun running around the map, and I like the connectivity quite a bit. I absolutely love the little chiclet lights on the walls, and the shortcuts that they make possible. Stuff like this is everywhere:
I tried to do this one for a while, and I suspect it's possible, but my promode movement skills are a bit rusty...
I've done both halves of it, but I just couldn't seem to put it together into one clean sequence...
Great layout.
About the only other suggestion like that I'd add is something that rgoer alluded to earlier--there are a few textures that would look a lot better if they were fit to faces, rather than just wrapped around corners or across edges. I realize this won't work in all places, and, yeah, it takes a fair amount of time to do it right, but it would make the map look cleaner in places. A couple of examples:
In this shot, that texture would look nicer if it was just fit cleanly (1x2) to that face, rather than wrapping around the corner a bit before reaching the seam. Same here:
You could fit both of those texs, and have them end at the corner, rather than wrapping. You get the idea.
I had fun running around the map, and I like the connectivity quite a bit. I absolutely love the little chiclet lights on the walls, and the shortcuts that they make possible. Stuff like this is everywhere:
I tried to do this one for a while, and I suspect it's possible, but my promode movement skills are a bit rusty...
I've done both halves of it, but I just couldn't seem to put it together into one clean sequence...
Great layout.
Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:10 pm
A simple request here, put those screenies on the first page in [ lvlshot ] tags please.
Off topic, Hi schwim. :icon25:
Off topic, Hi schwim. :icon25:
Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:58 pm
I tried that last one as well, maybe mew could do it. Basically I think the upper light is sticking out too far to use the ramp effectively... but I've seen wilder things work
I agree about the trim stuff, I could've made an extra texture for the standard sized ones and even for the more unusual shapes like GA at RG. But that's so time-intensive I didnt even start tbh. Same for the texture fitting. Except in the obvious places I didnt care for it. So it's not that I overlooked it but a priority thing. I have short bursts of free time on some weekends and that's where I get the work done, rare are moments where I just thought about making it pretty.
Btw I honestly imagined that style of textures around corners looked cool... guess not then
I agree about the trim stuff, I could've made an extra texture for the standard sized ones and even for the more unusual shapes like GA at RG. But that's so time-intensive I didnt even start tbh. Same for the texture fitting. Except in the obvious places I didnt care for it. So it's not that I overlooked it but a priority thing. I have short bursts of free time on some weekends and that's where I get the work done, rare are moments where I just thought about making it pretty.
Btw I honestly imagined that style of textures around corners looked cool... guess not then