Quake3World

Dr_Watson wrote:so why are 360's so fragile?
did they beat everyone else to market by using the market as their testers?

Having worked for an electronics manufacturer, I can tell you that making highly complex electronic devices is quite difficult, especially in the beginning of a production run. It sure seems to me that they didn't do enough thermal analysis on their PSU bricks, and as for the rest of the failure modes, who knows?

bitWISE wrote:Am I the only person who hasn't had to replace his 360 yet?

im on my second

Nightshade wrote:

Dr_Watson wrote:so why are 360's so fragile?
did they beat everyone else to market by using the market as their testers?

Having worked for an electronics manufacturer, I can tell you that making highly complex electronic devices is quite difficult, especially in the beginning of a production run. It sure seems to me that they didn't do enough thermal analysis on their PSU bricks, and as for the rest of the failure modes, who knows?

I think the GPU cooling was a bigger problem than the power bricks.

Nightshade wrote:

SOAPboy wrote: Regardless of void stickers, they know how much paste and shit is on them. Its machine built so its 100% consistant.

Right.

As far as glue, weld, etc is concerned? Yes, im correct.

Thats not to say something inside is a peice of shit :P

Dude, I worked as a Test Support Engineer for a major electronics manufacturer for a year and a half. No, you're not.

Fender wrote:I think the GPU cooling was a bigger problem than the power bricks.

yeah, i would think the gpu overheating and the disc scratching issues should have been sorted in testing/design.

I hadn't heard about any issues directly linked to GPU cooling, but again, heat issues should be one of the primary things you deal with in the design phase. There are so many good thermal analysis tools out there, it's sad to think that MS didn't make the most of them.

Nightshade wrote:I hadn't heard about any issues directly linked to GPU cooling, but again, heat issues should be one of the primary things you deal with in the design phase. There are so many good thermal analysis tools out there, it's sad to think that MS didn't make the most of them.

Thermal analysis of the 360. Mostly points to the GPU, although I haven't read the entire thing.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NE ... 01/137224/

Did you see the one on the PS3? It's massive! Doesn't make it a better system though.

andyman wrote:Did you see the one on the PS3? It's massive! Doesn't make it a better system though.

oh boy.

So it happened twice more tonight. I opened a repair ticket. Does anyone have any idea how long it generally takes from when I ship mine out until I have a replacement?

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

andyman wrote:Did you see the one on the PS3? It's massive! Doesn't make it a better system though.

oh boy.

Yes, the one thing that broke nearly every 360 is the one thing that Sony got right. do i have to explain everything? gorsh.

Fender wrote:So it happened twice more tonight. I opened a repair ticket. Does anyone have any idea how long it generally takes from when I ship mine out until I have a replacement?

It took my cousin a little over 3 weeks. Took him a few days to get the box from microsoft, then a LONG time for them to fix it and then send it back. But it was probably because they had their hands full (because of all the other 360's that they had to fix juggs).

Also, his repair tracking number wasn't working so he was forced to call every now and then to get a status. They wound up just giving him the runaround so he stopped calling and just waited for it to show up at the door.

probably.

I told you fartsniffers that the XBOX360 is a waste a time...the only thing M$ ever did right was the IE 3.0...and you heard it here first!

and then they fucked up so bad with the IE 4.0 that they gave it to razer to be reborn as the death adder.

Fender wrote:

Nightshade wrote:I hadn't heard about any issues directly linked to GPU cooling, but again, heat issues should be one of the primary things you deal with in the design phase. There are so many good thermal analysis tools out there, it's sad to think that MS didn't make the most of them.

Thermal analysis of the 360. Mostly points to the GPU, although I haven't read the entire thing.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NE ... 01/137224/

That sort of analysis wasn't what I was talking about, although it does appear to illustrate glaring oversights on the part of the designers. What I'm getting at is proper consideration of heat transfer and heat loads, which leads to specifying the right size heat sinks and ensuring adequate cooling flow. Ansoft, Comsol, and lots of other companies make software that accomplish this easily. Not having been involved in the design process I have to reserve judgement, but it sure seems like someone took some retard pills.

Yeah, I knew you meant a thermal analysis from an engineering and design point of view, not a stick a thermometer on a running box, but their numbers are interesting.

Yup. I just read the rest of the article, heat sink's too small and the air volume too low. I suspected that they put a smaller heat sink on the GPU and the article confirms that was done to put a DVD drive above it.

This guy took apart his elite to make a 360 laptop ( )and has some pics of the new heat pipe and 2nd heat sink for the GPU.
http://benheck.com/07-12-2007/inside-the-xbox-360-elite

It was time for me to test this glue substance. I pulled out all the stops and performed the most advanced analysis possible. First I did what any toddler would try and chewed on it.

hahaha. good read though, thx.

Fender wrote:This guy took apart his elite to make a 360 laptop ( )and has some pics of the new heat pipe and 2nd heat sink for the GPU.
http://benheck.com/07-12-2007/inside-the-xbox-360-elite

Looks like they've definitely improved the cooling. The 'hot glue' that he refers to is most likely to hold the chip in proper alignment during the BGA solder ball melt process, as he suspected.

I called in to get an update. Their automated system makes it nearly impossible to talk to a real person. Then when I finally did... you guessed it... Indian support center. That was a frustrating 20 minutes.

Finally got it back. One month total. I got a brand new 360 instead of a refurb. Manufactured date is 8/30, but no HDMI port. I thought all new 360s had the HDMI port?
This unit is much quieter. It must have the new DVD drive.