Quake3World

so that's like if i get on the bus in the US and say 'fuck you i'm not paying' and get to ride for free?

Dark Metal wrote:

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:That's fucked up. Here in Toronto, if someone refuses to pay the fare on a bus or streetcar, they are allowed to ride for free.

They're not allowed to ride for free, that was put in place to protect the drivers from being assaulted. Sure they ride for free but saying that they're allowed is misleading.

I think you missed the... awww I give up.

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
That same tax rate underpins such effective income redistribution that Denmark is the most nearly equal society in the world, in that wealth is more evenly spread than anywhere else.

now that would make the diffrence.

i should add i'm not totally against providing free post-secondary education. i just feel with our current system it would be unfair to low income earners to subsidize the education of say a lawyer that will make $200,000 a year.

obsidian wrote:I think you missed the... awww I give up.

Big Kahuna Burger wrote:so that's like if i get on the bus in the US and say 'fuck you i'm not paying' and get to ride for free?

Try it. See if they let you or...see you get shot from the bus driver's concealed weapon.

i'm sure they'd let me ride for free if i refused to pay. nobody is going to risk $7.50/hr to physically force me off the bus

the train is free anyway and the bus drivers don't care if you pay. they certainly won't taser you if you don't

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
That same tax rate underpins such effective income redistribution that Denmark is the most nearly equal society in the world, in that wealth is more evenly spread than anywhere else.

You are totally ok with that? Why would anyone even work hard or get an education if they can live comfortably on the backs of others?

Side note:
Not to be a dick or sound like a war monger, but one thing I am glad is that I don't live in a country that would easily surrender itself to the resident evil regime when it came knocking. Don't throw Amerikuh at me either, because my point is I like having a country that defends itself; I don't agree with shit like Iraq and the other "occupations" we have.

shadd_ wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
That same tax rate underpins such effective income redistribution that Denmark is the most nearly equal society in the world, in that wealth is more evenly spread than anywhere else.

now that would make the diffrence.

i should add i'm not totally against providing free post-secondary education. i just feel with our current system it would be unfair to low income earners to subsidize the education of say a lawyer that will make $200,000 a year.

That's just more proof that everyone should go to university and earn better wages (and paying higher taxes) to ensure the system keeps running.

I really don't get the obsession with income tax rates and how people feel as if they're being ripped off when they pay more. If you have everyone on even footing in terms of opportunities the system can give you, free healthcare, excellent vacation/personal time allotments to the dumb things such as making sure the road/highway system is in good order...who cares? It's the cost of better living and can be a benefit to your country/society. If the taxes actually go to the services they're supposed to provide and bring up everyone's standard of living...what's the problem if you pay 30% or 15%?

I find it hilarious that Canadians bitch about their tax rates when alot of the taxes they pay don't go where they're supposed to anyways. Many highways are crumbling and the "volunteer tax" that the government collects from lottery revenues doesn't actually go to the medical system like it's supposed to. Instead...taxes usually go to "balancing the budget"...which is nothing more than number shuffling after a government blows a wad of cash on something stupid.

Tasering people that don't pay sounds good to me. If it works out well, they should look into tasering other types of offenders, like people that run red lights, jay walkers, people that don't clean up after their dogs, people that cut in line, litter bugs, people with baby strollers, people that have their underware showing, and anyone wearing hobo clothes. For a start.

And people who leave their empty cups on the tables at Starbucks making it look liike they're still sitting there and getting you all upset when you sit there anyway getting ready to pull yer gun out if they come back and say that they were sitting there and you say "No u!" and then you have to shoot em and listen to everyone on Q3W say "Oh, yer a warmonger" and....

Oops. Sorry. Ferget I said anything.

Well. That was kinda slick.."yes me!" Ha Ha.

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
I find it hilarious that Canadians bitch about their tax rates when alot of the taxes they pay don't go where they're supposed to anyways. Many highways are crumbling and the "volunteer tax" that the government collects from lottery revenues doesn't actually go to the medical system like it's supposed to. Instead...taxes usually go to "balancing the budget"...which is nothing more than number shuffling after a government blows a wad of cash on something stupid.

i agree. too many people are complacent when it comes to their money. ffs people, it's your money! demand it gets spent responsibly!

Sevensins wrote: You are totally ok with that? Why would anyone even work hard or get an education if they can live comfortably on the backs of others?

Side note:
Not to be a dick or sound like a war monger, but one thing I am glad is that I don't live in a country that would easily surrender itself to the resident evil regime when it came knocking. Don't throw Amerikuh at me either, because my point is I like having a country that defends itself; I don't agree with shit like Iraq and the other "occupations" we have.

Well that's where your argument falls down.

To answer your question: I have no problem with everyone contributing to a common goal: Making sure our children and grandchildren have a better future. In Amerikuh....it's apathy where people are looking out for themselves and say "Things are going well for me..." when their country's economy tanks.

And to your point about Amerikuh defending itself...the military is the largest recipient of your tax dollars. Many times larger than health care, education and police services combined. Now...aren't you pissed that all your tax dollars thrown at "defending yourself" has largely gone to nothing more than incursions and killing for corporate interests in other countries, rather than honest "defending the borders" from enemies foreign and domestic?

Please...list me one war in the last 40 years that America has participated in where it was for ideological goals and "defending Amerikuh"...rather than bettering US position in the global market.

GONNAFISTYA wrote:Please...list me one war in the last 40 years that America has participated in where it was for ideological goals and "defending Amerikuh"...rather than bettering US position in the global market.

Grenada. I win.

shadd_ wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote:
I find it hilarious that Canadians bitch about their tax rates when alot of the taxes they pay don't go where they're supposed to anyways. Many highways are crumbling and the "volunteer tax" that the government collects from lottery revenues doesn't actually go to the medical system like it's supposed to. Instead...taxes usually go to "balancing the budget"...which is nothing more than number shuffling after a government blows a wad of cash on something stupid.

i agree. too many people are complacent when it comes to their money. ffs people, it's your money! demand it gets spent responsibly!

In reality the states should be handling everything like this, but the federal government has everyone fooled. We all focus on the presidential election because we've aloud the federal government to have so much power, but the state and local elections are the ones that should matter most.

We've strayed way too far from the 10th amendment...

Peenyuh wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote:Please...list me one war in the last 40 years that America has participated in where it was for ideological goals and "defending Amerikuh"...rather than bettering US position in the global market.

Grenada. I win.

Please don't go there...you'll get me into posting a flurry of Noam Chomsky links.

GONNAFISTYA wrote: Well that's where your argument falls down.

To answer your question: I have no problem with everyone contributing to a common goal: Making sure our children and grandchildren have a better future. In Amerikuh....it's apathy where people are looking out for themselves and say "Things are going well for me..." when their country's economy tanks.

Then I applaud the people of Denmark for not having so many freeloaders, because I really feel that we would have way more freeloaders than contributors here.

GONNAFISTYA wrote: And to your point about Amerikuh defending itself...the military is the largest recipient of your tax dollars. Many times larger than health care, education and police services combined. Now...aren't you pissed that all your tax dollars thrown at "defending yourself" has largely gone to nothing more than incursions and killing for corporate interests in other countries, rather than honest "defending the borders" from enemies foreign and domestic?

Please...list me one war in the last 40 years that America has participated in where it was for ideological goals and "defending Amerikuh"...rather than bettering US position in the global market.

That isn't the point I am trying to make. Like I said, I don't agree with many of our military actions in the last whatever years. No, I don't like paying for those military ventures. However, I certainly don't mind paying taxes to a military that is there to defend my country and not rollover.

Obviously a military for defensive purposes only would have a lot lower tax burden...

GONNAFISTYA wrote:the military is the largest recipient of your tax dollars. Many times larger than health care, education and police services combined

not correct. it's approximately a 1-to-1 ratio, which is still pretty high, frankly

Peenyuh wrote:

GONNAFISTYA wrote:Please...list me one war in the last 40 years that America has participated in where it was for ideological goals and "defending Amerikuh"...rather than bettering US position in the global market.

Grenada. I win.

you've got to be kidding

Yes. Yes I am. Duh.

Wabbit wrote:they should look into tasering other types of offenders, like people that run red lights, jay walkers, people that don't clean up after their dogs...

all valid.

Sevensins wrote:
That isn't the point I am trying to make. Like I said, I don't agree with many of our military actions in the last whatever years. No, I don't like paying for those military ventures. However, I certainly don't mind paying taxes to a military that is there to defend my country and not rollover.

Obviously a military for defensive purposes only would have a lot lower tax burden...

Well...to that I say if your military's role is nothing more than defending the country and not rolling over for the sole purposes of defending you BECAUSE of the many military actions in the last whatever years...then you have a problem.

seremtan wrote:not correct. it's approximately a 1-to-1 ratio, which is still absurdly high, frankly

Fixed

I've never bought the whole defensive military funding idea. If our military were purely defensive, we'd have some tax dollars paying for research and making sure we have cutting edge weaponry, and we'd have some more dollars going into training everyone on weekends or in blocks.

But the US doesn't even need much of an active military purely for defense IMO. There has only been one attack against us that I can think of where an active military could have prevented American losses - and the President let it happen anyway to get us into a war (arguably of course).

Who the hell is dumb enough to cross the seas and try to attack a massive consolidated island like us? Besides, no one would really want to attack us if it weren't for our politically-motivated military incursions to begin with.

Ryoki wrote:

Turing wrote: http://www.libraryspot.com/know/highesttax.htm

What a bargain! Free university and health care for only 68% of your income! I bet you can buy lots of stuff with that other 32%.

I like how you left out the part where it sais 68% is for people in the highest income bracket.

Yeah, people who make a whole $70,000 a year, give or take. Wow. That's... I mean wow. That's so rich. That means if you're making 70K, you're dealing with a take-home salary of 22,400.

Ryoki wrote:

Turing wrote:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/05/ ... /labor.php

Of course, their citizens are leaving the country at rates that are causing a labor shortage, but that must be because they're idiots who grew tired of paradise.

Oh and you apparently read over this part from that article:

Denmark is the home of "flexicurity," the catchy name given to a system that pays ample unemployment and welfare benefits but, unusually in Europe, imposes almost no restrictions on hiring and firing by employers. The mixture has served Denmark well, and its economy barreled ahead in 2006 by 3.5 percent, one of the best performances in western Europe. The country is effectively at full employment.

No, I read that just fine. Is... is it shocking to you that countries with a labor shortage also have full employment? Is that the problem? Do you not understand that those are sort of the exact same thing?

And GKY: attack the source all you want. I know the IHT is SO well known for being nothing but a big conservative think-tank, and you're certainly not a ridiculous hack who has absolutely nothing to back up his shit but attacking my sources, despite them being chock full of statistics that make your point look really, really stupid. I would probably try to discredit it too.

No wait, I'm actually capable of admitting when I'm wrong, never mind.

I will attack any source that frames a discussion on the "evils" of high taxation when it passes itself off as an objective piece of journalism. If you cannot see the bias in that article then I can't help you. And again...when I lived in Denmark I was earning more than 360,000 kr and not paying 63% tax so the article can be easily criticized since it bases so much of it's thrust on that one fact...all while being incorrect. BTW...I was kidding when I equated it to a policy paper dictated by Rick Santorum or some other pro-capitalist think tank. An obvious exaggeration yes, but the article still reads like it was intended as a handout for some evil business meeting.

Denmark has a higher median salary than the US that - after taxes - ends up making the same or a little bit less than the median US salary (after taxes)...and they get healthcare, a completely free education and a bunch of other benefits as well as 5 weeks vacation. Americans work up to 4 weeks longer just to earn the same money. The number one reason why Danes travel and see the world (which that article tried to make sound like Danes were desperate to "escape" Denmark) is simple: they can afford to and they get enough holiday time to enjoy it. Hell...it's even common for Danes to take 2 - 3 vacations a year and visit a different country each time.

It's quite obvious you have no idea what's what outside your own borders. You're looking at numbers with no real-life qualifiers other than tax rate and income brackets from a personal story of a man who decided to move to Frankfurt (a well known "capitalist free-reign zone"). And since you come from a country that doesn't even have universal healthcare and generally hates "freeloaders", I'd say your perspective on this matter is more than a little fucked.