If I wanted to move up to a nice camera...

[tnf]

More research that I do, the more I am now leaning towards the D80 as the ideal price/performance level for me. Done some reading about the big differences in the basic architecture of the D60 and D80 and the fact that the 80 has a lot more options for lenses since it has an AF motor in the body (I am a complete noob here, so might be way off base on how I am describing this.) The D80 is $749 at Costco with an 18-135mm lens (a bit cheaper on Amazon until you factor in shipping).

My question - how versatile is that 18-135mm lens? I am really lost when I read about all the different lenses and have no idea what ones are used for what. Initially, I just want a good all purpose lens that will let me do portraits with the person I am shooting in focus and the background out of focus.

[menkent]

from what i've read: the real advantage of the d80 is its 11 point AF system (versus 3 points for d60).

The D60 may share the same sensor and shutter mechanism as the D80, but Nikon’s higher-end model is a much more powerful camera in many respects. It features improved build quality, a far superior viewfinder experience with optional grid-lines and a depth-of-field preview, a sophisticated 11-point AF system with autofocus support for older lenses, accurate feedback from the battery, an upper screen for shooting information and direct control over popular settings like White Balance and ISO.

The D80 is therefore much better-suited to enthusiasts or anyone who wants to grow with their camera in the future. And the D60’s advantage of a stabilised kit lens is countered by typical D80 kits with longer zoom ranges. So unless you love the smaller and lighter body of the D60 with its slightly friendlier approach, the D80 is well worth paying the extra. See our Nikon D80 review for more details.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon ... dict.shtml

the 18-135 is versatile, but doesn't have the vibration reduction. look at the gallery section of that review to see what sort of shots you can get even with the 18-55mm lens.
btw- i like the d80, too.

[tnf]

Well now I'm back to undecided between the D80 with that 18-135 for around $730 and that Canon XSi kit that includes both an 18-55 lens and the 75-300mm lens for $749 total...

Every review that compares the two really doesn't declare a clear choice, so on the one hand I don't think you can really go wrong with either...but the additional lens seems like a good deal.

[menkent]

each has its advantages. that's a good deal on the canon though, so unless one feels better in your hands than the other... i'd be inclined to go ahead and take the deal.
be sure you read the fine print though. check reviews on the included lenses etc. amazon still has the d80 with an 18-55mm VR lens for a bit less than with the 18-135mm. anyway, i imagine you'd be perfectly happy with the canon. if you go with another camera it won't be because it's better, but because it's cheaper.

edit: unless you can afford a 40D. unf.

[tnf]

Went to costco today to get that canon deal and it was $849.99 in the store ($100 more than online). Didn't notice it was an online only deal, so I had to order it to get the good price. Now it will be 10-15 days for standard shipping (all costco.com seems to offer :/ ) Then I will be taking crappy pics with an even nicer camera.

[plained]

costco is a good place to buy cuz they double the warrenty and u can exchage anytime really easy

good one man!

[dmmh]

if I had to buy a new one, it would be a D90 fo shizzle. D300 if I had a bit more to spend

[menkent]

yea, d90 is going for like $1150 with a lens though... that's a pretty big step up from the XSi with an extra telezoomy lens at $750.

[Mr.Sparkle!]

Went to costco today to get that canon deal and it was $849.99 in the store ($100 more than online). Didn't notice it was an online only deal, so I had to order it to get the good price. Now it will be 10-15 days for standard shipping (all costco.com seems to offer :/ ) Then I will be taking crappy pics with an even nicer camera.

Hope you enjoy that. One of the best investments, IMO.

[ForM]

Not a bad choice on body's tnf. There is much to learn with it.

You will like the 18-55 as it has pretty decent Image Quality for such a cheap lens. It can be picked up for around 50 bucks and feels as cheap in the hand. But still, not a bad lens at all. Very versatile as a walk around lens. Sometimes a bit slow to focus as it is a f/4 - f/5. The manual focus ring tends to be a bit lose, but does a decent job.

The 75-300 tho is just a cheap zoom. Also an f/4-f/5 it can be even slower to focus. Expect to use a tripod with it at the longer reach side.

Both len's are called the "Kit" lens that go with this body. Nothing real special, but you will get a good feel with both.

I personally have the 70-300mm IS USM. Cost a hella lot more than the Kit 75-300. Some call it a hidden "L", but I tend to disagree with them.

I have learned to steer clear of zooms for Primes. They cost a lot more, but IQ wise, is well worth it. While I only have one right now, I plan to pick up a couple more after the holidays are over with.

Pro tips........

Learn manual mode ASAP. Take control.

Shoot in RAW.

And join us here. All things Canon..... http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php

Have fun with that Camera.

[tnf]

Thanks Form. I'm sure I'll be hitting a lot of you up with questions.

I figured the lenses included aren't going to be that nice, but as a beginner just to get a few lenses to learn on with your kit is nice.

I just can't believe how fucking expensive even mid level lenses are. A friend of mine rents lenses now and then when he does the camera work for mountain bike races, anyone else heard of renting a lens for a special occasion?

[ForM]

You will like the 18-55, it has a lot of potential. Don't discount it for being a cheapish lens.

Renting a lens is a good way to find out if you want to spend that kind of dollars on a lens.

However it has its draw backs.

1, you know you want to try this lens out and expect less, yet you find out it preformed on levels you did not expect.

2, Haveing rented the lens and finding it did exceptional in your testing, you now salivate to buy this lens at all costs.

3 You buy the lens and suddenly now you are broke and are to busy to use it.

Lottsa money to spend for doodads and gadgets. But never enough to get those doodads and the time to use them when you do.

I have the XTi. The XSi was still a year down the road but as I stated before, I still got my eye on that 5D Mark II.

[Fanatic X]

Learn to shoot with this...

[tnf]

What version of photoshop do you need (minimum) to open raw images from newer cameras?

[menkent]

Learn to shoot with this...
pic

yea, except it it's quite a pain (and expensive) to get good prints from negatives these days. that said there's a Canon AE1 Program and a bunch of accessories on their way to me right now via ups. it was a great kit... 25 years ago.

[Doombrain]

Learn to shoot with this...

u mad?

[dmmh]

yea, d90 is going for like $1150 with a lens though... that's a pretty big step up from the XSi with an extra telezoomy lens at $750.

well I didnt say you should have gotten that, just saying what I would get
enjoy your new camera

[obsidian]

What version of photoshop do you need (minimum) to open raw images from newer cameras?

Photoshop 7.01 by the sound of it. There are fairly often RAW Adobe updates.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/sho ... php?t=9061

Or Adobe Photoshop Lightroom, which I now use almost exclusively with all my photographs.

[XLer8er]

I have the Canon Rebel XSi (aka 450D outside of the US) also. I had it for over six months. Its a great starter DSLR camera IMO.

What version of photoshop do you need (minimum) to open raw images from newer cameras?

The XSi/450D writes in the newer .CR2 raw format. I know that photoshop CS3 you need to add a plug-in for it.

edit: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/ ... ftpID=4040 (wrong version b4, 4.6 is right.)

[tnf]

Well the camera was supposed to come today, but with the weather up here it is delayed for fuck knows how long. I am impatient, so I bought the in-store version at costco for $849.99 and will just return the one I ordered when it shows up. There was a reason for the switch besides the delayed shipping - I didn't notice at first that the in-store kit comes with the camera, the 18-55mm IS lens, and a zoom lens that is also an image stabilization lens. The one I ordered online was not an IS lens.

Battery is charging now.

Comes with a very nice camera bag too.

[Mr.Sparkle!]

Take some test shots when you can.

[tnf]

too many settings to learn for the slow witted! gah.

[Doombrain]

stick to the green square to start with for the shots you want to keep then play with the settings.

also lightroom is your best bet.

[Mr.Sparkle!]

stick to the green square to start with for the shots you want to keep then play with the settings.

also lightroom is your best bet.

DB, you think upgrading to v2.0 is worth it?

[tnf]

Wow its amazing how much better just plain old candids of people look with this thing instead of a basic point and shoot. Even using just the automatic setting there is a real professional look to everything.