Quake3World

Posted: **Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:44 pm**

I think that each of the changes are an improvement, so thumbs up for that.

The new RL corridor could do with a bend/visual block of sorts to it imo, or at least an element that promotes a little vertical variation (ie: stairs or something). It just feels too blocky. On a similar note, I can't quite decide whether the 2 RL's are too close to one another or not.

The PG platform I have never liked - it seems far too narrow leading from the jumppad, maybe something can be done there to improve it and also make the geometry around there look a little more interesting.

As for sending it to Sync, I think you're being impatient again! Aesthetics are also very important and I think there's still a lot of work to be done in that department - more variation in lighting, ambient sounds (eg: running water sound by new RL and maybe RA), more detailing and trimming, and of course finally addressing that patch texture issue. But anyway, you're still making great progress so keep it up.

A few more small changes and I think you're past the beta stage!

Edit: I saw the easter egg btw

problem is that you can only really see it using noclip.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:01 pm**

I think beta 3 is an improvment over the last version already. Though it still has quite some weak points IMO:
- the lighting (lack of shadows, overbright in some places)
- the detailling (corridors looking naked - not sure if that's still on your wip list tho)
- the room structure and complexity
- jumppads are still pushing you too high up
- Im uncertain about your tubes and the liquid inside them - did you want to accomplish the same effect as on QL's phrantic? Maybe I can help out

Also I agree with themuffinman about the PG ledge. What you might want to do is killing the JP in the MH room and putting the TP exit up there. I don't like the current exit anyway but that might be just me.

Some screenshots:
[lvlshot]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9444/shot0000pt.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9979/shot0001kw.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/176/shot0003jl.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6168/shot0004ot.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5687/shot0005lq.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/474/shot0006tn.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6892/shot0008ld.jpg[/lvlshot]

I hope those can inspire you a little - maybe you can port some of the room structure concepts to the MH room. As always, these are only suggestions. About sending the map to id.. I think you can always do that, no matter what state your map is in - point out what the state of it is and what aims you have for it. However, a finished map will always be the better choice to send in as it gives them a full impression of your skills and abillities.

Good luck.

Posted: **Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:06 pm**

Thanks for your suggestions.

In response to the second screenshot posted by cityy, here is a blueprint of a revised upper hallway:

trainingday_bp1.JPG

This new layout should create more interesting geometry, reduce the line of sight, and perhaps make it more difficult to grab the YA / RA so quickly. The chute is also an inventive idea I came up with, inspired by Quaker-X`s "Grindmill", which takes you to the lower hallway without having to use the jump pad well.

The pipes: Yes I was trying to achieve a Phrantic-esque pipe, and I would appreciate any help you have in this regard cityy, thank you.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:17 am**

Yeah, I'm with everyone else on this. Don't be too hasty with sending it in. It's still very rough around the edges. I think it's important to change the brownish pipe/wire texture in this hallway (under the fence).

Otherwise, I think the layout is finally good. Listen to cityy and themuffinman; they know what they are talking about.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:07 am**

cityy, those screenshots don't show. You really shouldn't use shitty imageshack, photo bucket is ftw

Ok this applies to this thread as well as that lighting issue thread you started Tiger -

Ambient light should be used to a strict minimum. I'd say lowering it to 5 would be even better. I think a bright look to the map works well for it, but with enough lighting variation, coloring and shadowing to make it look good. To improve the lighting more, concentrate on using only sun and surface lights, and very little ambient lights if you can help it. Take On the Edge as an example: I used some surface lights in a few places, plus the sky, ambient lighting of about 5 and that was it. I also know that cityy's Left Behind also uses primarily surface lights and no area/point lights - and I don't even think he used ambient light at all!

Your sky shader could use redoing and q3map2 functionality added for that extra lighting precision. Replace it with this in your shader file as well as replace it in your map editor:

Code: Select all

textures/pasduel1/sky
{
	surfaceparm noimpact
	surfaceparm nolightmap
	surfaceparm sky
	q3map_globalTexture
	q3map_sun .160 .128 .096 80 300 60
	q3map_surfacelight 50
	qer_editorimage textures/skies/inteldimredclouds.tga
	skyparms - 512 -
	{
		map textures/skies/inteldimclouds.tga
		tcMod scroll 0.1 0.1
		tcMod scale 3 2
		depthWrite
	}
	{
		map textures/skies/intelredclouds.tga
		blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
		tcMod scroll 0.05 0.05
		tcMod scale 3 3
	}
}

The RGB values give it a brownish light, but it's a brown sky you have there anyway. I think that one of Method's bright white skies in QL would be more suitable for this map though (like the sky used in Asylum). You could also add white light beams to the edges of your sky roof and by your girders above the mega to give it that extra bright, sunny day look.

You should also tweak your lighting compile. Here's something similar to what I used for On the Edge:

Code: Select all

"C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\q3map2\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena" -fs_game "baseq3" -connect 127.0.0.1:7525 "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\baseq3\maps\trainingday.map"
"C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\q3map2\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena" -fs_game "baseq3" -vis -connect 127.0.0.1:7525 "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\baseq3\maps\trainingday.map"
"C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\q3map2\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena" -fs_game "baseq3" -light -fast -fastbounce -shade -bounce 6 -samplesize 8 -samples 3 -dirty -dirtscale 4 -dirtdepth 8 -v -cpma -gamma 1.25 -connect 127.0.0.1:7525 "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\baseq3\maps\trainingday.map"
"C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\bspc.exe" -bsp2aas -connect 127.0.0.1:7525 "C:\Program Files\Quake III Arena\baseq3\maps\trainingday.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize
Pause

The bounces are very important as that will give some radiosity to the map, making it bright in more places. Dirt map gives your geometry more depth in places. The gamma value can be lowered if it's too bright. Fast makes the compile much quicker and I get the feeling you haven't been using that! Start using it and you'll never make a compile again without it guaranteed!

Anyway, alter the paths accordingly if you don't have Q3 and Q3map2 installed in the default paths. Save that to a text file, saved as trainingday.bat, run it. Result?

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:25 am**

The screenshots display fine here!? Seems to work for emeraldtiger aswell.

You are right about the usage of ambient light - keep the ambient light count low as a high number will wash out shadows. As you said Left Behind uses shader light almost exclusively. The reason for this is that I just didn't know about the advantages of entity light back then. However, I'm using mostly entity light for a while now as it gives you more possiblities and control about what result you want.
I made a related screenshot: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... light1.jpg
As you see the lighting results from ambient light 5, some minlight, the skylight and lots of entities. The total count of light entities in beta 1 was 302 with 142 info_null entities for spot lights. All my spot lights are 2 colored to give it some interesting effect. Method does that in his QL maps too btw. Also using colored ambient light can contribute to the atmosphere and looks more natural if done right.
I put the official QL light compile settings into the screenshot - SyncError pasted them on IRC a while back (adjust the -threads switch). Like themuffinman I compile using a .bat file. It is a slighty modified version of what obsidian gave me a while back.

About the pipes.. I once tried to redo that shader and this is what I could come up with:

Code: Select all

textures/yourmap/pipe_liquid
{
		qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.tga
		q3map_globaltexture
		surfaceparm nomarks
		cull disable
	                //BACKGROUND COLOR - background.tga is a 16*16px single color .tga image
		{
			map textures/yourmap/background.tga
		}
                        // LIQUID
		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .5 .5
			tcmod scroll -.05 .001
		}
	
		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .5 .5
			tcmod scroll .025 -.001
		}

		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_3.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .25 .5
			tcmod scroll .001 .025
		}	
		//GLASS EFFECT
		{
			map textures/effects/tinfx.tga
                        tcgen environment
			blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
			rgbGen identity
		}

		{
			map $lightmap
			blendFunc filter
			//blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
			rgbgen identity		
		}     
}

Hope it helps.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:57 pm**

It really look like the map is too bright. Look at the lighting brighness level on other maps. What I don't like is that you can see YA, GA, and MH from one spot - when you stand on upper level in MH room.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:56 pm**

Wow! Thanks so much for the compiling settings, cityy. I just love the shadow effects it produces, it looks very nice. -fast setting saves so much time, so thank you MuffinMan for that also.

Just one question: Anyone know where I can find Method`s sky shaders?

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:11 pm**

Search for "meth" in skies.shader.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:43 pm**

[lvlshot]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1pcbmfDra1qavh7ro1_500.jpg[/lvlshot]

Sent you the pm EmeraldTiger.

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:49 pm**

Whooooooooo........ lives in a pineapple under the sea?!

Posted: **Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:26 pm**

Spongebob... good ol` times.

New eps are crap though.

Thanks for the .map file. I like your changes, I`ll see if I can move them over to my .qrk file (the .map file has a lot of stretched, misaligned textures from the brush primitives change), then go from there.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:53 am**

I added some more detaling wherever it counted. My imagination isn`t good enough to find all the potential areas to dress up without messing up things, but I did add more pipes, trims etc. and that good stuff. However, the compiling settings that cityy shared are very awesome and should make up for any lack of detailing. It`s no longer the ugly fullbright compile it used to be.

In fact, I`m so confident with this release that I`m ready to call it a release candidate. There are a few very minor visual issues such as z-fighting on a blue trim corner, but I don`t feel like going back to fix them (long .aas compiles) and they can easily be fixed by id (and they have to put in cell id info for ads too, so they`ll have to modify it either way

)

To make it more official, I included an .arena file so it can be callvoted from the menu, and loading / callvote screens have been added, using QL`s official screen format.

Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8cyyx6ehelma4z4 (1.14 MB)

Thank you all for the wonderful support. I do appreciate it very much. I plan on sending the map to Sync tommorow, as I feel confident enough that he`ll be quite receptive of it. It may not be the best map he`s ever seen, but I`m sure it`s good enough. My parents seem quite proud as well.

Have fun!

Quake3World

Training Day - Release Candidate 1 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]

Re: Training Day - Beta 3 [Quake Live]