Dynasty (Final)

Discussion for Level editing, modeling, programming, or any of the other technical aspects of Quake
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Eraser
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by Eraser »

Some more things. In the fog, put a trigger_multiple there which points to a target_speaker with it's noise key set to "*/falling1.wav".
Then you'll hear the nice "aaah" screams when people fall in :)
I'd say that you should put this trigger at the height of your trigger_hurt now, because that seems to be in kind of a high position. Move that trigger_hurt further to the bottom.

Also, the damage of the crusher should increase. Put it at 999 so people are guaranteed to be instantly crushed. Right now, people just get stuck between the crusher and the pillar and are drained of life relatively slowly.

The fog problem I reported earlier is gone. It looks good now. It is very green though ;)
themuffinman
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by themuffinman »

Just tried it, looking good.

I'd put a second button up by the launchpad to RA for the lols.

Everything else seems spot-on from what I saw. Any update on any progress done since?
EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Thanks guys. :)

I`m currently working on visuals. Trying to get some model-related issues fixed, (DaEngineer`s tree models from Roman Duel) but everything is going smoothly. Going for a Mediterranean-style gothic theme, with touches of green and yellow. (Think cityy`s Silence, but more subtle)

There`s also a few experimental, major gameplay-related changes I made which will be released in the beta. Hopefully though, I have improved in visuals since Tactical Assault. Am experimenting a bit with architecture and making surfaces less monotonous.
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EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Small Preview

Image
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Eraser
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by Eraser »

Ooh, that's quite a different visual style than I imagined you were going for, but I guess I assumed too much based on the temporary texturing. I like it though and now that I think of it, it fits the "domain of red snakes" name well :)
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by themuffinman »

Looking good! Nice choice of texturing etc.

Although you should really break up that top trim a bit though, accentuating that invulnerability hatch, pillars at accel pad etc., making sort of tower structures out of them. Aesthetic height variation makes it far more interesting to look at (as you'll see in most professionally made maps). Also, gothic is meant to be all ostentatious and flamboyant, so your usual 'minimilistic' style might make it look nice, but not very gothic.

Good idea with the water fog, but some sexy water shader like in Solitude and Left Behind could also work wonders. Just some ideas ;)
EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Image
Guess what I`m gonna do here! (Hint: Think of that Team Arena map that you always got lost in)

Besides the preview, I have some spare Blender models sitting in my projects folder. I have a statue of Razor holding a flag for example (probably not going to use), and the Bitterman statue. Only problem is when I go to unwrap the UVs, the textures get messed up. Re-aligning them seems to take what seems like ages, to the point of driving me on the brink of insanity. I probably wouldn't mind that hassle if I was making my own model, but since I'm basing this one off of some pre-existing meshes, I'd love to know if there is an easier method, like if the copying coordinates can be done. (This seems to be a topic of controversy)
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EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Well, I`m currently trying to get some texture-related issues fixed before I release the first beta, but I`ll go ahead and let everyone know that, besides these problems, the map is pretty much ready so here is yet another screenshot I`ll post before I release Beta 1 to the public gaze:

Image
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Eraser
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by Eraser »

Looking good, but I wouldn't go for the green light between the pillars (probably cast by surfacelight from the launch pad and the green banner.
Combined with the yellow from the wall lamp and the purple of the powerup it gives an uneasy look with too much odd contrasting colors in there.

Maybe it's not as bad when actually moving through the map, but I'd replace the green with a warmer color, perhaps red or orange.
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Eraser wrote:Looking good, but I wouldn't go for the green light between the pillars (probably cast by surfacelight from the launch pad and the green banner.
Combined with the yellow from the wall lamp and the purple of the powerup it gives an uneasy look with too much odd contrasting colors in there.

Maybe it's not as bad when actually moving through the map, but I'd replace the green with a warmer color, perhaps red or orange.
I see what you mean, though when you move through it you`ll find the map mainly consists of golds and greens, working in harmony to create something of an "organic" feel. I appreciate your input, however.
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Eraser
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by Eraser »

Yeah I expected it would stand more out in a singular screenshot than when moving through the map. Maybe it's the added effect of the invulnerability in the background, which is purple and it kind of amplifies the effect of multiple colors being everywhere.
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mrd
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by mrd »

Looks pretty good, although I think the architecture is a bit bland. Somehow, red snakes conjures up a bit more to me than what is there. Granted... haven't played it yet so maybe I shouldn't say anything. I don't find the yellow-purple-green colours in that shot to be particularly clashy... when shall a beta be out?
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

mrd wrote:Looks pretty good, although I think the architecture is a bit bland. Somehow, red snakes conjures up a bit more to me than what is there. Granted... haven't played it yet so maybe I shouldn't say anything. I don't find the yellow-purple-green colours in that shot to be particularly clashy... when shall a beta be out?
I intended on waiting for a response from DaEngineer regarding the tree model issues, but I`m getting the feeling that he might be very busy, so unless I unexpectedly receive a response, I might go ahead and post a beta tommorow. I might also receive more globalized feedback this way as well, not saying that Engineer`s advice is unwanted.

I hope he is okay with that. :)
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EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Alpha 4)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Well, I decided to go ahead and post the beta now. I`ll be leaving on a 10-hour trip tommorow, so I`ll post it now in hopes that I`ll get some responses by the time I get back. Again I hope DaEngineer is okay with this.

Download Beta 1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_b1.zip

Changelog:

- Established visuals.

- Added falling sounds for fog of death.

- Added a second button that also activates the crusher, but also has a viewing
screen which allows you to see someone going for RA, as otherwise the crusher
is obscured behind the walls.

- Atmospheric sounds added.

- Water in main room replaced with fog, teleporter and it`s respective destination
have been removed and a jump pad leading up to the invulnerability hatch has
been added where the teleporter destination was.

- Slightly widened the hallway next to the RG, added some CG belt ammo.

- Bridge in the LG room is now a sloped platform which can`t be walked under.

- Fixed issue with crusher not killing players instantly. (hopefully... :p)

- LG platform has been changed to not have it`s own ceiling anymore. Column
extended for cover. Floor is grated so you can damage someone from below
with a hitscan weapon like LG or RG.

- Hint brush placement for FPS optimization. Max r_speeds peak around 16,000
traingles.

- Numerous other things.

All credits for custom textures and models not owned by me in the readme. And ofc credit to DaEngineer for the tree models. :)
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EmeraldTiger
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Download Beta 2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_b2.zip

[lvlshot]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_b2.jpg[/lvlshot]

Changelog:

- New, more contrasting skybox from ra3map7. (The Houses of Infliction)

- Removed the Persian rugs in favor of metallic flooring in places.

- More atmospheric sounds added, including some flame sounds that I forgot to
add for Beta 1.

- Reduced the contrast and saturation of several green-colored objects. Green
lighting has either been toned down or removed.

- Clipped the rocky GL tunnel.

- Re-clipped the trees.

- Several other clipping adjustments made.

- Some minor brushwork and texture fixes.

- Tree model issues fixed, much thanks to the MuffinMan.
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cityy
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by cityy »

I like it better now! The trees really add a lot to it and the new sky works pretty well. You should check the clipping around you archways again (noticed it at the LG, should check the others too).
I'm not very keen on how you tweaked the colors of your banners. You kinda killed their contrast.
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themuffinman
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by themuffinman »

I'd consider using texture blending with the terrain. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to get right but the results are worth it. It involves getting a few similar ground textures though. I'd also whack some phong shading on it. I can help you out with it if you're interested.

I think that the green in the item spawn shaders could do with a bit of a glow so they stand out a bit more. It looks especially dull under the YA on that dirt floor.

There's some visible caulk further up in that big ass tower above SG. Even though it's seemingly inaccessible, it isn't. There were a couple of other places with visible caulk that I can't remember right now.

Some snakes of some sort (replace the statue with a snake statue?/red snake textures on some walls?/item spawn points with a snake design?) would make the map name much more appropriate since right now it seems completely unrelated. Yeah you can argue the situation with Steel Rats but I still maintain a map name should have something to do with the actual map.

You should rename all shaders you're using from other maps to your own naming conventions as there's the chance that it ends up conflicting with the original maps.

Otherwise I like the changes. A really good color selection going on there - it's easy on the eyes and has a good feel about it. The sky and sky light change is a definite improvement.
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Experimenting a bit with terrain blending, using Sock's tutorial as a reference.

So I got two separate shaders from Sock's tutorial, carefully designed the brushes so the vertexes connect perfectly, etc. then doing the "pole" trick that everyone loves to use. But the game doesn't agree with me: (don't mind the the fullbright screenie, it was a quick q3map2 -meta compile :P) All poles are stuck where the vertexes meet, as per the tutorial.

[lvlshot]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27277779/pasdm1_blendp1.jpg[/lvlshot]

Note that right now I'm only focusing on blending that middle texture with the inside texture. The brown dirt outside is something I'll work on adjusting for it's own blending shaders later on after I get this issue cleared.
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Fjoggs
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by Fjoggs »

I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

Fjoggs wrote:I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)
It`s flat. Is there a way to achieve a similar effect, though, with non-angular terrain?
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Bliccer
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by Bliccer »

Hm I thought it was only possible if you have some gradient in there. Meaning not only the 100% alpha texture but also e.g. the 50%. Isn't 100% meaning totally opaque?
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by obsidian »

Fjoggs wrote:I can't tell from your screenshot, but your terrain is angled right? It doesn't work if it's flat. (afaik)
Not necessarily. Dotproduct terrain uses the surface normal to calculate vertex alpha values, so if you have a dp shader alone you would be correct. But if you are using alphaMod brushes (either by themselves or in conjunction with dp) then you can explicitly set vertex alpha values to the vertexes.

The vertexes need to be completely enveloped by the alphaMod brush's volume. You don't necessarily have to use poles, a single strip can be used if convenient to totally envelope a series of vertexes. 100% is usually the default state (opaque), you probably want to use some other value like 0%.
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by sock »

EmeraldTiger wrote:Experimenting a bit with terrain blending, using Sock's tutorial as a reference.

So I got two separate shaders from Sock's tutorial, carefully designed the brushes so the vertexes connect perfectly, etc. then doing the "pole" trick that everyone loves to use. But the game doesn't agree with me: (don't mind the the fullbright screenie, it was a quick q3map2 -meta compile :P) All poles are stuck where the vertexes meet, as per the tutorial.
Did you get any of my sample maps to work/compile? Did you setup the alpha blending shaders? Are you using a version of Q3map2 that supports alpha brushes? Maybe post your shaders as well so people can see what you are doing.
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themuffinman
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by themuffinman »

Use NetRadiant's q3map2 and if you followed the tutorial properly, it'll work :)
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Re: Domain of Red Snakes (Beta 2)

Post by EmeraldTiger »

I compiled Sock's terrain2_soc9.map as a test and a guide (since it is the last step besides the added decor), though when it compiles it doesn't look as smooth as on Sock's site. The "middle" strip looks just like grass and gravel rather than a combo of sand and grass. Which is strange, as I'm using q3map2. Maybe my version just doesn't support alpha brushes, but I`m not sure how to check what version I have. (My BSP menu gives q3map2 compile options, not q3map - so I`m a little confused)

Screenie:
Image
(This is the terrain2_soc9.map)
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