Quake3World

I've got them but would rather get them to sock so he can put them back up. Not especially comfortable in principle just making them available because I can (ooo principles!)

Kat wrote:I've got them but would rather get them to sock so he can put them back up. Not especially comfortable in principle just making them available because I can (ooo principles!)

I don't have the space on my FTP server for this file and I recently lost all of my website source files in a HD crash, so please share the file if you have space.

Hmm, I have space if these files needs hosting.
I don't have any principle issues with hosting others files =)

http://kitteh.msgftw.com/stuff/industri ... ource1.psd

ETA: 8:45 AM (25 minutes).

Doesn't work =(

So have all the textures cut apart, to let me bring down the file size later in the pk3...

Question: Since the textures are 1024x1024 pixel in size (the largest ones)... I need to set the default texture scale in GTKradiant from .5 to .125, right? Never used such high-res textures before... so this is all new.

Thus a 1024x1024 pixel texture will fill a 128ux128u brush. I thinnest texture stripes end up being 4u, strangely... though they feel like they should be 8u... but I may just be confusing this.

Thanks...

Sock,
this will sound ungrateful, especially since you lost the texture source for these textures.

But I am trying to avoid the colour scheme Pat is using and I noted that there is a yellow base crete texture, and also the pipe ones are yellow, and the hazard stripes, and on the crates... and these are quite fundamental to set a colour tone (other than using your already existing coloured metal textures).

Would there be any chance of you creating an orange version (that I would use) of these "base" textures?

I might be able to do it myself, but I do fear these "attempts" will look less than good. So before I mess them up, I am asking.

Thank you.

Solved: PS's Hue/Saturation slider, Hue to -20 turned the yellow parts of the textures to orange. Should be a very close match. Hopefully that was indeed the correct setting. As suspected messes the crate and pipe background texture up, i.e. base texture backgrounds. Fine for crete. Fixed... used Magic Wand Tool to limit area.

I thought no one was interested in these textures, after years of minimal downloads and no one making anything from them I had more or less given up. Got to say I did find the old school label for the texture set insulting considering they are mostly photo sourced images by myself and the hand drawn stuff is minimal. These textures can easily look convincing and good for industrial environments, just remember to use real world structural scales and prefabs.

AEon wrote:Since the textures are 1024x1024 pixel in size (the largest ones)... I need to set the default texture scale in GTKradiant from .5 to .125, right? Never used such high-res textures before... so this is all new.

Thus a 1024x1024 pixel texture will fill a 128ux128u brush. I thinnest texture stripes end up being 4u, strangely... though they feel like they should be 8u... but I may just be confusing this.

There is a much easier way to deal with HD textures, I highly recommend to check out the shader files used in Map on the Edge of Forever. All the texture scaling and tweaking is done completely with shaders so that the map does not need to be constantly re-compiling all the time.

First setup the HD textures in a separate directory, then create scaled down (paint package required) versions of all the textures you want to use. Save these in the base texture directory you want to setup. Then create a shader file which references all the scaled down textures and points to the HD versions. The scaled down versions are purely editor only so it does not matter what quality they are.

Once the map is compiled, check out the HD textures in game (loaded via shader) and distribute the HD textures only with your final zip file. The engine does all the heavy lifting with scaling textures for you and the editor works as before using the 0.5 scaling.

Example shader using HD reference:

sock wrote:I thought no one was interested in these textures, after years of minimal downloads and no one making anything from them I had more or less given up. Got to say I did find the old school label for the texture set insulting considering they are mostly photo sourced images by myself and the hand drawn stuff is minimal. These textures can easily look convincing and good for industrial environments, just remember to use real world structural scales and prefabs.

I'd say what made those screens looked oldschool was the way the textures were used, and not the textures themselves. The bridgecrane map is one of the best looking maps I've seen in Quake 3.

Hi btw!

Sock,
thanks for the detailed tips. You may have done a too good job using your textures, since it leaves little for us "commoners" to "improve" on their usage in a map... . That might have been humbling.

I did the scaling down for the editor textures for Reflex... there they also use 1024x1024 ones... and the scaled down ones in-Radiant, are easily enough as preview. I will need to try a few compile tests to see if I can use the nice hires textures directly in the editor or if I really need to go your suggested path via shaders. I sorted your textures into:
under textures\... this works well for the editor, letting me "pre-sort" them. Alas texture sub-folders do not seem to work in Radiant, i.e. "textures\aeindus\industrial_*\". So I am still trying to figure out how to place the textures... easiest would be to put all your textures into one folder, i.e. "textures\aeindus\"... the way .pk3 always do it. But then the "nice" sorting of the textures is gone. Use of the Radiant texture name filter might be the way.

BTW... most of the cropped textures are now in PNG format. Is that an issue for the editor or the game?

First setup the HD textures in a separate directory, then create scaled down (paint package required) versions of all the textures you want to use.

So the 1024x1024 end up as 256x256, so the down-scale is 1/4, correct?

Hopefully, I will soon be able to create something of interest...

Fjoggs wrote:

sock wrote:I thought no one was interested in these textures, after years of minimal downloads and no one making anything from them I had more or less given up. Got to say I did find the old school label for the texture set insulting considering they are mostly photo sourced images by myself and the hand drawn stuff is minimal. These textures can easily look convincing and good for industrial environments, just remember to use real world structural scales and prefabs.

I'd say what made those screens looked oldschool was the way the textures were used, and not the textures themselves. The bridgecrane map is one of the best looking maps I've seen in Quake 3.

Hi btw!

Yeah, I certainly misspoke there...I meant to say that the screenshots looked old school, not the textures. Sorry for that. No insult intended. Fjoggs said it a lot better than I did. I think that your industrial map is a technical and artistic masterpiece.

i never understand "old school" quake references to my work . i only played quake/quake 2 a handful of times because i was only seven years old by the time quake 3 came out!

@sock: i was also surprised that nobody used this texture set for such a long time. then i tried to use it myself and i quickly realized why that was. your "Bridge Crane" concept was so successful that it was almost impossible for me to avoid one of the following two feelings while mapping:

1. i am plagiarizing "Bridge Crane"
2. the map i'm making looks like shit compared to "Bridge Crane"

this might be kind of an annoyance to hear but, as AEon articulated, i think your work is so good that a lot of mappers are too intimidated to try to improve on it. that said, the community is small and it could have just happened that none of us had the inspiration to make an industrial map at the time this set was released. after all, the strength of "Pyramid Of The Magician" did not stop people from using those terrain textures over and over...

... and over ...

maybe there is less flexibility with an industrial set and that is why people are more likely to get scared off by the first feeling i mentioned? for example, how many different ways are there to use crate and pipe textures? not many. it's also possible that industrial textures are inherently easier to make than organic textures, so people are more likely to photosource from CGTextures to make something that no one has seen before.

there was also the issue that people had with how the textures were packaged. i was only bothered by the "stitched together" textures during the doodling phase of my map. now that i have a strong direction it's not too time consuming to adjust the textures into place, and i actually like working with a smaller number of files. also, i remember reading in a texturing book that it's technically more optimized to condense textures in this way, right?

regardless, it looks like people are getting more interested in this set now, which is good. i hope my map can add some new ideas to it, although i doubt it will even approach the realism of "Bridge Crane", and actually i am going for a more sci-fi feeling than that anyway.

@AEon: if you want to use the 1024x1024 versions of the textures, just keep in mind that every texture you use will add another 3MB to your .pk3 size! personally, i don't want to make people download a map that is over 100MB, so i am just using 512x512. maybe i'm a simpleton but i don't even notice much of a quality difference anyway.

On the theme of piping meaning something I recoloured the yellow original, trying to follow Sock's colour wheel Hue offsets, with a bit of tweaking. This way I can play around with the pipe colours some more. Also added a red one for now...

Pat,
my file size will be a lot smaller since I cut the textures apart. If you use Sock's originals, any texture you use will automatically mean you load a 1024 or in your case 512 ones into memory. And I understand the engine logic behind this. The GPU, IIRC saves textures in powers of 2, so 1024x1024 is the "ideal" ("good?") packaging for the GPU. But only if you actually use *all* the textures in that image. Since the textures are sorted by sets, you will most likely use 2-3 and the others are waste in in VRAM and pk3 file size, since they are not used in the map. Unless the engine is actually really clever and does some "image space" cropping. But then again one could say who cares.

Sockindustrial is actually what I try to use in all my maps that aren't Minecraft or other specific themes, but I never release any. I greatly appreciate that they exist, same with the palace textures (and of course the older packs as well). The palace textures have been useful to me and others; at least some of the textures were used in acc_cath.

While they do look amazing, at least to me it's a bit difficult to use them when they don't scale perfectly to the brush they're on, which forces a very small amount of actual possible uses. Scaling, skewing or distorting textures really bothers me, so I like to have every texture at the same density, and scaled properly on both the X and Y axes. So I can't make them look really great without stealing Sock's style

@Pat, 1024 vs. 512 really is visible, and the filesize is not 3MB in the pk3. A raw .tga is 4MB, raw .jpg is less than 1MB. Compressed in a Zip archive, a .tga will still be pretty small. The entire pack is only 200mb in a Zip archive. Filesize is really not an issue if the map looks nice, at least to me. I don't mind filesize, and actually feel like I'm getting a better map if the .pk3 is bigger.

could anyone seperate socks source into seperate images for me?

Theftbot wrote:could anyone seperate socks source into seperate images for me?

"Ferrao10" did that a while ago, but apparently password-protected his pack and didn't provide a link. He says pm him, maybe you should try? I have it, but it's really big and I don't want to upload it again... Maybe after I finish adding all the colored variants, I'll zip it up and add it. I dunno.

I didn't password-protect the final pack of the sliced variants. It can still be found at
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6tu91 ... strial.rar / It is big though, ~160MB.

I had upped a password-protected pack that wasn't completely done while I was slicing and looking for help on the job.
It would be great if you'de take the time and up your coloured variants, KittenIgnition.

Ferrao10 wrote:I didn't password-protect the final pack of the sliced variants. It can still be found at
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6tu91 ... strial.rar / It is big though, ~160MB.

I had upped a password-protected pack that wasn't completely done while I was slicing and looking for help on the job.
It would be great if you'de take the time and up your coloured variants, KittenIgnition.

Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing, I'd definitely like a more complete pack. Maybe when I'm done working on my QL stuff I'll cut up the colored ones. I don't have any kind of system to make it go very fast, so it's all done by manually selecting each quarter or sixteenth of a page and saving it as a separate file. Slow and boring, just the way I like it.

I have all textures cut up, coloured and base ones... systematic naming in place. Textures that were cut up are in PNG format, uncut ones still TGA.

Why use PNG? It's incompatible with almost every configuration of Quake 3, and is quite annoying to work with. TGA is way better.

Because my PS cutting tool does not export to TGA... and since when would it be any issue at all to convert to TGA.

PNG is lossless, so there should be no problems doing it like this.

As mentioned my tool sliced them into 24bit PNG (luckily the TGA with 32bit e.g. glass) did not need cutting and they are still in TGA format. So far PNG works in GTKradiant 1.6.4... and a while back I asked if there are any downsides to using them. The advantage is the PNGs are smaller in file size (and lossless in compression), though TGA does zip compress very well and since it has less compression probably loads faster into Radiant or Q3A.

This also includes a few pipe, wall crete and hazard stripe textures for which I additionally created other coloured versions.

So if there is interest, I can convert them over to TGA, and pack all sliced images into one huge file. Question is then where do I upload it? I no longer have webspace. A quick zipping of the PNG yields a 308 MB file size, the TGA one will probably be slightly larger (342 MB).

The images are sorted into these folders, mostly according to Sock's original naming: Since I am strictly adhering to Sock's naming convention, it should be trivial to e.g. sort out the coloured metal versions you do not require. In my maps I ended up putting all textures into one folder (except for the light textures that are in a subfolder)...

I also created a shader for all the lights and the grates... though these will need some testing.

KittenIgnition wrote:Did I PM you for an incomplete version, then? Because if there was anything missing...

I don't recall you PMing me. It would have been in March 2012, could be my old brain .
Anyways, the pack I upped to mediafire contains most of the basic stuff (grey, brown and yellow) sliced to what I felt was required to work the oldschool-way (no ASEs).

If you guys are talking about coloured variants you are talking about Sock's other packs, right? If I remember correctly he also did orange, blue and green packs?
If you guys did the job on slicing those ones up, it'd be great if you'd make them available.

Mediafire supports files up to 4GB on 32bit browsers and 20GB on 64bit. A free account can upload up to 50GB.

Who cares if the images load in Radiant, when they won't load in Q3? Doesn't make any sense.