Non Brits - A question

[Eraser]

DC, everyone always has something to complain about, and rightly so. It's unfair to say that someone can't complain about their job because other people got it worse. Then you'd invalidate any complaint anyone has about anything.

Also, job hopping like you suggest isn't an option for everyone, certainly not in these economic turbulant times.

[Tsakali]

they should create a giant man-made island called Olympicland, and every nation that wants to compete has to contribute to the construction of an entire Olympic setup (accommodation, stadia, etc). profits would be poured back in to the running of the place, security would be much simpler, and the whole thing would be less of a financial burden on the host nation. they could even dispense with the corporate sponsors if it was publicly funded

yeah I was gonna say, keep it in one place and have it 'sponsored' by the hosting country... whoever that might be that time around.

But I like your island idea... we should make it a floating island, that way it can be 'moved' closer to the hosting country? LOL but I guess it would be cheaper to pay for your nation's travel tickets and accommodations than to move the island around every 4 years.

[Tsakali]

it could generate it's own money by being a place of interest by sightseeing visitors of countries it 'floats' by on its way to the next stop.

[seremtan]

move the island around every 4 years.

even better! let's hold the Olympics... IN THE AFTERLIFE

[0psys]

No; to get my spellng right. There is no misdirected anger. The post targets the bitter and joyless people of this country.

The "proper job" comment is refering to people that bitch and moan about how the conditions they are working under are so bad. They are in need of a reality check of how bad the conditions really are and also they need to look at why they are stuck in a job that they feel is that bad. I thought the conditions of my job were "shit". And by shit I meant that the management ment of the place I was working at were so blinkered that they could not see how bad things had got. So do you know what I did? That's right, I got a new one. I did this by learning new skills and bettering myself. In other news, I have a friend who is a welder and is currently sat in a metal box on the side of the bridge with a TIG welding kit. Temps above 50 degrees. They are rough conditions to work in, but it is part of the job that he applied for and wanted. While I appreciate the need for some health and safety and for certain things to be monitored, there are things you do for your job that might be a little uncomforable. It is your job. You and only you make yourself get up and go there every day. If it is that bad, quit. If you work in an office and something is annoying you, try and fix it.

I just pisses me off that people will sit there and whine and moan about things day in and day out without trying to improve things themselves. Like I said, it is like everyone feels that they are owed something by someone else just because they were born here.

These are the same people who seem intent on ruining things for everyone else by either bitching and complaining or just generally in life by not taking responsibility for their own actions.

Edit: Also to confirm that I agree certain aspects of the games has really not gone well: tickets and corporate nonsense etc, but the construction and inforstructure has gone amazingly well. No delays, no snakes in hotels as in the commonwealth games the other year. No real hic ups from that side.

That's not fair, and I suspect you hold that belief because you've possibly never struggled to any real degree.

Some people are unable to better themselves, but they get through it by complaining about it. Complaining is a coping mechanism.

[Don Carlos]

No; to get my spellng right. There is no misdirected anger. The post targets the bitter and joyless people of this country.

The "proper job" comment is refering to people that bitch and moan about how the conditions they are working under are so bad. They are in need of a reality check of how bad the conditions really are and also they need to look at why they are stuck in a job that they feel is that bad. I thought the conditions of my job were "shit". And by shit I meant that the management ment of the place I was working at were so blinkered that they could not see how bad things had got. So do you know what I did? That's right, I got a new one. I did this by learning new skills and bettering myself. In other news, I have a friend who is a welder and is currently sat in a metal box on the side of the bridge with a TIG welding kit. Temps above 50 degrees. They are rough conditions to work in, but it is part of the job that he applied for and wanted. While I appreciate the need for some health and safety and for certain things to be monitored, there are things you do for your job that might be a little uncomforable. It is your job. You and only you make yourself get up and go there every day. If it is that bad, quit. If you work in an office and something is annoying you, try and fix it.

I just pisses me off that people will sit there and whine and moan about things day in and day out without trying to improve things themselves. Like I said, it is like everyone feels that they are owed something by someone else just because they were born here.

These are the same people who seem intent on ruining things for everyone else by either bitching and complaining or just generally in life by not taking responsibility for their own actions.

Edit: Also to confirm that I agree certain aspects of the games has really not gone well: tickets and corporate nonsense etc, but the construction and inforstructure has gone amazingly well. No delays, no snakes in hotels as in the commonwealth games the other year. No real hic ups from that side.

That's not fair, and I suspect you hold that belief because you've possibly never struggled to any real degree.

Some people are unable to better themselves, but they get through it by complaining about it. Complaining is a coping mechanism.

Not true as such; I have been in positions where I have not wanted to go into work because I have hated it so much. Other people made my life a misery. I have been told I was going to be made redundant 1 year after buying my first house, but I had to work there for a few months while I had that axe hanging over my head knowing that someone thought my job was pointless/worthless. I got another job. I searched actively and used some of the time to do courses and things like that.

I don’t buy into the whole “some people can’t better themselves” statement either. People always have the ability to make themselves better, it is whether or not they choose to.

[Don Carlos]

it's where getting a jerb flipping burgers, or moving up a rung of responsibility at the call center and generally being a good little wage-slave is defined as 'bettering yourself', the entire argument collapses like a mexican outhouse in monsoon season.

Get a job flipping burgers and don't like it; get another job
Get a job in a call centre (which both you and I have had) and don't like it; get another job

I have worked myself up in a call centre to being a phone monkey to working on Information Security in a risk and compliance team. Now I build things for websites; I have adapted and changed what I do and worked towards gaining transferable skills so I can get job I want to do. I am by no means a particularly clever person, but if I get annoyed with the work I am doing I know the only person who can really change it is me.

Once again I think it is the expectation of people in this country that they are owed something. You have to work in life to get what you want, not expect it to be given to you. Perhaps it is just the way I have been brought up...

[MKJ]

so now people with shit jobs weren't proplerly raised, is what you're saying?

[Don Carlos]

so now people with shit jobs weren't proplerly raised, is what you're saying?

Not at all, I have been taught that if you are in a shit situation by all means bitch and moan but don't bitch and moan without doing something about it, work your way out of it.

[MKJ]

ah yes, i agree with that. I hate it when people complain about something they are fully in control of.

[0psys]

Not true as such; I have been in positions where I have not wanted to go into work because I have hated it so much. Other people made my life a misery. I have been told I was going to be made redundant 1 year after buying my first house, but I had to work there for a few months while I had that axe hanging over my head knowing that someone thought my job was pointless/worthless. I got another job. I searched actively and used some of the time to do courses and things like that.

I don’t buy into the whole “some people can’t better themselves” statement either. People always have the ability to make themselves better, it is whether or not they choose to.

Not downplaying your experiences, but none of those things count as struggling; they are first world problems. I'd barely class those things as worth a moan.

The fact that you don't "buy in" to the concept of being trapped shows just how privileged your upbringing has been. Good for you, there's no reason to witness any of the things I've seen that make your views seem naive.

You're a young man who owns his own home. You're middle class. That very fact alone absolutely precludes you from understanding or even comprehending the struggle of a life without privilege.

You used your spare time to "do courses and things like that". What if your job had been a Tesco cashier, and you were a 35 year old single mother with absolutely no education and three children living in a high rise in south London surrounded by gangs and crime? Your job didn't even cover the rent and bills, so you had to be on income support. Where do you presume you'd find the time, confidence or self awareness to better yourself? Where would you start if you had to help her realise she wasn't trapped, Don? Would you begin with a lecture about how you once almost lost your job and how the mortgage on your lovely house that continues to increase in value almost didn't get paid for a month or two?

I promise you your view is both incredibly naive and particularly incompassionate. There are people in this world who do not have the time or means to pull themselves out of the mire. They have neither the time, education, or self-belief that you have been gifted.

It's a peculiar phenomenon among middle class people. My girlfriend is exactly the same. She just doesn't understand how the rest of the world aren't able to just change their situation if they don't like it. Our new daughter is due on Sunday, and I feel strange in hoping she grows up to be the same as you or her mother. Completely oblivious to the kind of struggle one can endure that grinds your passion and self confidence into dust.

[0psys]

Get a job flipping burgers and don't like it; get another job
Get a job in a call centre (which both you and I have had) and don't like it; get another job

I have worked myself up in a call centre to being a phone monkey to working on Information Security in a risk and compliance team. Now I build things for websites; I have adapted and changed what I do and worked towards gaining transferable skills so I can get job I want to do. I am by no means a particularly clever person, but if I get annoyed with the work I am doing I know the only person who can really change it is me.

Once again I think it is the expectation of people in this country that they are owed something. You have to work in life to get what you want, not expect it to be given to you. Perhaps it is just the way I have been brought up...

Ah, so at the end here is where you admit that your views are based on social conditioning.

Lucky you for having a decent upbringing. Not everyone gets one of those.

[Don Carlos]

Not true as such; I have been in positions where I have not wanted to go into work because I have hated it so much. Other people made my life a misery. I have been told I was going to be made redundant 1 year after buying my first house, but I had to work there for a few months while I had that axe hanging over my head knowing that someone thought my job was pointless/worthless. I got another job. I searched actively and used some of the time to do courses and things like that.

I don’t buy into the whole “some people can’t better themselves” statement either. People always have the ability to make themselves better, it is whether or not they choose to.

Not downplaying your experiences, but none of those things count as struggling; they are first world problems. I'd barely class those things as worth a moan.

The fact that you don't "buy in" to the concept of being trapped shows just how privileged your upbringing has been. Good for you, there's no reason to witness any of the things I've seen that make your views seem naive.

You're a young man who owns his own home. You're middle class. That very fact alone absolutely precludes you from understanding or even comprehending the struggle of a life without privilege.

You used your spare time to "do courses and things like that". What if your job had been a Tesco cashier, and you were a 35 year old single mother with absolutely no education and three children living in a high rise in south London surrounded by gangs and crime? Your job didn't even cover the rent and bills, so you had to be on income support. Where do you presume you'd find the time, confidence or self awareness to better yourself? Where would you start if you had to help her realise she wasn't trapped, Don? Would you begin with a lecture about how you once almost lost your job and how the mortgage on your lovely house that continues to increase in value almost didn't get paid for a month or two?

I promise you your view is both incredibly naive and particularly incompassionate. There are people in this world who do not have the time or means to pull themselves out of the mire. They have neither the time, education, or self-belief that you have been gifted.

It's a peculiar phenomenon among middle class people. My girlfriend is exactly the same. She just doesn't understand how the rest of the world aren't able to just change their situation if they don't like it. Our new daughter is due on Sunday, and I feel strange in hoping she grows up to be the same as you or her mother. Completely oblivious to the kind of struggle one can endure that grinds your passion and self confidence into dust.

The example you have used is not uncommon and I do feel for these people as they have never been given the chance to fulfil their potential, whether that is because they had a poor start to life or for other reasons. In a case like that you need to look at why that person is in that position in the first place. The first thing I would do is make that person realise that they have potential. They just need a helping hand to get themselves sorted out. These are the kind of people who are not afraid of a hard days work. Sadly the help they need so much is not forthcoming in the society that has been built, which is a great shame.

My opinion is that these are the people who are not complaining about the games and are probably embracing the spirit because they have kids (or because they welcome the distraction?), despite their horrendous circumstances.

My issue is with the people who have every opportunity to better themselves and choose not to. The, as you say, middle class people who because they have a rich Mummy and Daddy think they are owed something and don’t work for anything. I have friends who work for bin cleaning companies and they don’t have much money, but they make do and they enjoy life. They are not bitter, they are not complaining about everything and anything. They have that job and they get on with it and do it.

I would hardly class myself as middle class; I am working class. I spent 14 years in one of Newport’s roughest estates living with my Mum, who was a young single parent. I saw my Dad on weekends. I am lucky in that both of my parents were always there for me and were adult enough, despite their young age, to still bother conversing with each other for my benefit. I am also lucky that my Dad worked hard enough and saved up enough to be able to buy a house in a nice part of Newport so I could move there and go to a better school. I totally understand that this is not common so I am thankful.

Also I don’t own my own home anymore, sadly. I split with my long term partner and I was left in the house on my own struggling to pay for the house and living from one month to the next, having to budget every single penny I had to ensure that I didn’t drop a mortgage payment or miss a utility bill, whilst still being able to get back and fore to work some 40 miles away. I did this for nearly a year whilst the house sold at a colossal loss. I now live in the spare room at my Dads why I try and dig myself out of my indebtedness, which I am doing. And yes, I also realise I am lucky to have had someone to move back in with. It was hard. I had no life. I went to work, came home, went to bed. Rinse and repeat. The stress it caused had an extremely detrimental effect on my health to the point of being hospitalised and having to have some awful tests done for a few different things, including cancer.

My life has not been plane sailing but I appreciate I have not had it as bad as some others. I don’t live in an area where there is gun crime (well, minimal) and there are not too many bad things happening on a daily basis. But there are people who are in a better position than me who complain all the time about everything and anything. It still seems utterly ridiculous.

[losCHUNK]

Inflation up to the nines, rising fuel + food costs, largest un-employment in decades, conservative party who piss all over the NHS, police, fire, city workers and armed forces whilst still getting our arses tax'd but its ok, we got the olypmics !.

We all know the olympics is a waste of time and the governing bodies of any major organisation (like FIFA, FIA) will always be looking to line their own pockets rather than ours during events like these, were the hosts and were the ones footing the bill so there will be some resentment there, the media will always blow the smallest thing out of proportion, like the lack of security or the london cab strike, but on the flip sde they were creating the hype for this and youve seen the crouds, I had mates off to watch a greek flame run around the 'Port and I never thought id get to see people excited about such a thing.

Were gonna moan about what needs moaning about, its the only way people raise and refute issues, you, youre moaning at moaning !, you should be happy we as a country notice small injustices and raise them for the world to see but nah, we should all walk single file and be happy because thats what a good little citizen does ?, but we'll also praise what needs praising, like erm, greek flames ! and erm, the olympics !, its on time and on schedule, surprising but never the less, woohoo !

[Don Carlos]

Inflation up to the nines, rising fuel + food costs, largest un-employment in decades, conservative party who piss all over the NHS, police, fire, city workers and armed forces whilst still getting our arses tax'd but its ok, we got the olypmics !.

We all know the olympics is a waste of time and the governing bodies of any major organisation (like FIFA, FIA) will always be looking to line their own pockets rather than ours during events like these, were the hosts and were the ones footing the bill so there will be some resentment there, the media will always blow the smallest thing out of proportion, like the lack of security or the london cab strike, but on the flip sde they were creating the hype for this and youve seen the crouds, I had mates off to watch a greek flame run around the 'Port and I never thought id get to see people excited about such a thing.

Were gonna moan about what needs moaning about, its the only way people raise and refute issues, you, youre moaning at moaning !, you should be happy we as a country notice small injustices and raise them for the world to see but nah, we should all walk single file and be happy because thats what a good little citizen does ?, but we'll also praise what needs praising, like erm, greek flames ! and erm, the olympics !, its on time and on schedule, surprising but never the less, woohoo !

Finally, a sensible answer, to a point. Then you go all funny about me asking for people to fall in line and I am doing no such thing. I am asking people to change what they dislike. We have a shit government, get rid of them by voting for the other guy. Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils but still...

[Plan B]

I like the olympics, as an idea.
Humanity proving differences can be overcome/put on hold for the greatest sports event ever.
All the more shame it has turned into such a commercial pissing contest.

[Don Carlos]

Should have quoted the other bit as well

[plained]

on sunday u say! exciting indeed!

long time coming

i get wonderstruck just imagining her potential!

i will reserve till cigar time!

[Plan B]

"cigar time"

Sounds like some sick metaphor
Yet I ask.

[losCHUNK]

Inflation up to the nines, rising fuel + food costs, largest un-employment in decades, conservative party who piss all over the NHS, police, fire, city workers and armed forces whilst still getting our arses tax'd but its ok, we got the olypmics !.

We all know the olympics is a waste of time and the governing bodies of any major organisation (like FIFA, FIA) will always be looking to line their own pockets rather than ours during events like these, were the hosts and were the ones footing the bill so there will be some resentment there, the media will always blow the smallest thing out of proportion, like the lack of security or the london cab strike, but on the flip sde they were creating the hype for this and youve seen the crouds, I had mates off to watch a greek flame run around the 'Port and I never thought id get to see people excited about such a thing.

Were gonna moan about what needs moaning about, its the only way people raise and refute issues, you, youre moaning at moaning !, you should be happy we as a country notice small injustices and raise them for the world to see but nah, we should all walk single file and be happy because thats what a good little citizen does ?, but we'll also praise what needs praising, like erm, greek flames ! and erm, the olympics !, its on time and on schedule, surprising but never the less, woohoo !

Finally, a sensible answer, to a point. Then you go all funny about me asking for people to fall in line and I am doing no such thing. I am asking people to change what they dislike. We have a shit government, get rid of them by voting for the other guy. Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils but still...

tbh that was a question, as in is that what you would prefer ?, changing government for some of us wont fix the things we need fixed though, none of the things I mentioned in the 1st part of my previous post will improve or go away if any of the leaders up for election get elected imo, society has fuck all choice and this is shown where Clegg got some power when the dude couldnt run a krack den... the the way I see it weve lost all faith in our leaders, from Blair creating false wars to Clegg allowing the rise in Student fee's, could go on abouyt MP scandals and the banks squander but meh, in short, the fish rots from the head down

and all this is nothing new , you can take this post back 100 years, re-jig the names / problems and itd probaly still make sense

[Plan B]

So fucking change it.
I'm getting a bit tired of people whining about politics like it's a force of nature you can't do anything about.
What are you doing to change shit?

[losCHUNK]

You go build utopia and then tell me how you done it ?, because thats basically what were striving for ?, problems can be found in any society for generations and to overhaul this would require a world wide revolution of epic proportions, kinda like in Star Trek, but seeing as the system we have now is broken, it still works, and until it breaks i think we show our happiness with it by not throwing sticks and stones at each other, but to ignore a problem as a society will never improve anything, so no harm in moaning

[seremtan]

I am asking people to change what they dislike. We have a shit government, get rid of them by voting for the other guy. Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils but still...

is it really the lesser of two evils? or is it just various different kinds of 'evil', where the question of degree of 'evil' isn't really important?

in one sense, i hate election day. it's the day i feel morally obliged (due to the historical struggle and sacrifice of many people motivated by the need for a free and just society) to go and vote, and yet i find it impossible to decide between the various flavours of authoritarian mediocrity on offer

[seremtan]

"Howard would make the Lakers infinitely more athletic"

infinitely

[TruthfulLiar]

What I want to know, is where I can get some cheap jerseys!??