Quake3World

How's the wife?

YourGrandpa wrote: Yeah, I'm for life in prison too. But I don't think I or anyone should be forced to pay for it. I mean I'm all for those who want to keep this terrorist alive to build a jail cell on their own property, hire armed guards to watch him 24/7, pay for his maintenance, food, electric, plumbing, medical, etc. for the rest of his life. Otherwise, end him and his burden on society.

However, I find it hard to believe that anyone would offer this guy life in prison if ran up and stabbed your family member in the face right in front of you.

IJS.

Maybe I lean heavily toward the death sentence in some cases (like this) because, imprisonment for life here is not like where you people live. There are murders committed here where the convicted receive little or no jail time, and yes, I appreciate there are nations that have no hesitation in summary execution.

If 'life in prison' meant they would never get out it would be a different world. We would have millions around the globe doing life in jail and we'd all be the poorer for it IMO in more than simple financial terms.

Maybe too, it was the premeditated act of terrorism and the number of casualties that prompted the post, and remember, I am on the other side of the planet to Boston

Personal note: Every prisoner I met doing life knew they would get out if they behaved themselves. There were some horrendous crimes and yes some were beyond rehabilitation or forgiveness but still, it wasn't 'life in prison' for them.

Did anyone hear of the recent execution by firing squad of two Australians in Indonesia for drug smuggling some 10 years after their conviction. I just wondered if it made news where you are

A rather lengthy item on the subject
Another site with international statistics

YourGrandpa wrote:

seremtan wrote:so you've never heard of life imprisonment, which counts as a 'viable alternative' in the civilised parts of the world?

Yeah, I'm for life in prison too. But I don't think I or anyone should be forced to pay for it. I mean I'm all for those who want to keep this terrorist alive to build a jail cell on their own property, hire armed guards to watch him 24/7, pay for his maintenance, food, electric, plumbing, medical, etc. for the rest of his life. Otherwise, end him and his burden on society.

However, I find it hard to believe that anyone would offer this guy life in prison if ran up and stabbed your family member in the face right in front of you.

IJS.

If that's the case you shouldn't pay for anyone in prison, just let them all run free.

And if he stabbed my family I'd like to think that I would'nt give them the chance of standing trial, but justice is impartial.

what gramps is saying is that if someone steals his car or his boat, it would be unfair for other people to pay for the thief to sit in jail for however long, therefore gramps is willing to pay for a private jail cell (i assume he'll do the electrics himself, to save money) so that the violation of his property rights isn't a burden on society

or maybe he'd be willing to cover the costs of short-term incarceration for property crimes but not the long term cost of life imprisonment? hmm. that would make sense if property crimes didn't outweigh homicides many times over, thus evening out the cost. it would also make sense if America didn't have a three strikes rule (thanks to Slick Willy) that hands out a life sentence to someone convicted of stealing a cookie (so long as they've been convicted of stealing two other cookies on two previous occasions)

It's mildly humorous, but ultimately sad how people have to come up with absurd scenarios to rationalize their ridiculous views.

Like grand/petty theft is somehow remotely comparable to mass murder or terrorism.

Psshh..

Doombrain wrote:How's the wife?

She's doing fine. This year we'll be married 16 years.

lol

YourGrandpa wrote:Like grand/petty theft is somehow remotely comparable to mass murder or terrorism.

morally speaking it isn't, but you made an argument based on the cost of incarceration, and cost is something that can be measured and therefore compared

it's as if you haven't got the balls to just say "murderers deserve to die", and make a moral case for that position (one that doesn't involve a tedious and irrelevant "how would you feel?" rhetorical gesture)

Well you could extend the arguement and ask if anyone serving a life sentence should be sentenced to death ?

People like these dirty scumbags -

Over 3,200 people nationwide are serving life terms without a chance of parole for nonviolent offenses. Of those prisoners, 80 percent are behind bars for drug-related convictions. Sixty-five percent are African-American, 18 percent are white, and 16 percent are Latino. The ACLU has called these statistics proof of "extreme racial disparities." Some of the crimes that led to life sentences include stealing gas from a truck, shoplifting, etc. A large number of those imprisoned had no prior criminal history whatsoever

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_impri ... trikes_law

I just read n all that to serve as a Juror in a capital punishment case you have to be 'death qualified', which basically means if you oppose the death penalty you get stricken off the Jury list.

That has to show bias surely ?

Life in prison so society can continue to pay for this man to stay alive who was responsible for death and destruction or society pays a one time fee to end this mans time on our planet.

Edit: Maybe not a one time fee, but at least not a life time fee

seremtan wrote:morally speaking it isn't, but you made an argument based on the cost of incarceration, and cost is something that can be measured and therefore compared

it's as if you haven't got the balls to just say "murderers deserve to die", and make a moral case for that position (one that doesn't involve a tedious and irrelevant "how would you feel?" rhetorical gesture)

You are aware that you're posting in the Boston Bomber thread, aren't you? The cost was referenced as it relates to this or similar situations. Where it's more than clear that the individual/s are guilty of heinous crimes against humanity. Furthermore, I don't think every murderer should be executed. But in cases like this the death penalty is warranted and should remain an option for punishment. My "what if" scenario was also completely relevant as it relates to one's personal involvement. People who think the death penalty should be abolished seem to be emotionally disconnected and refuse to acknowledge the pain/trauma of the people affected. They what to take the moral high ground and somehow pretend that these animals have a worth or social value. When in reality these cold blooded killers have no respect for human life and never will.

Now get out your broad brush and paint up some more fictitious anecdotes. But whatever you do, don't address the what if.

In the US, executed prisoners are considered to be homicide victims because that is what happened to them, they were deliberately killed. The death penalty doesn't deter murderers and terrorists, it doesn't prevent these crimes from happening and it doesn't teach the perpetrators a lesson, all it does is cause another death, and that's often after years of appeals and legal arguments. The parents of the child murdered in the bombing didn't want Tsarnaev to have the death penalty because they wanted the emotional closure that they would have got if he had been sentenced to life without parole. What happened that day in 2013 was horrific, it was an evil crime that caused three deaths and 260 injuries, but will adding one more death to the toll do anything? I doubt it.

This is without approaching the debate that if you support the families wishes to kill the perpetrator then you're supporting revenge - which has no place in law other than the death penalty.

syp0s wrote:

saturn wrote:Capital punishment is an ignominious act of prehistoric eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth sentiments that don't belong in modern societies.

It doesn't work as a warning, it doesn't quench your thirst for retaliation, and it's a total shame if the convicted was innocent. Especially since our legal systems are prone to flaws.

More than that though, the fact that a government can have a legal right to kill its citizens is a terrifying thing. I reject the death penalty on those grounds alone.

I think in the US' case, the only thing the death penalty is about anymore is the maintenance of (or at least the perception of the maintenance of) government power. US stands alone among Western cultures as a country which practices capital punishment. We all know it serves no purpose to deter those who would commit the acts for which it is apparently there to deter. The US is drunk on visions of Empire, the death penalty is merely a facet of that.

So you're saying you know for a fact that capital punishments hasn't deterred one murder? Or are you saying it doesn't deter every murder? Because I can assure there isn't a law or punishment that is going to deter every crime.

Capital punishment is retarded cuz it's way better to be executed than serve life in prison.... Unless ur a moron...

Capital Punishment serves a specific purpose. It's rids society of people who can't coexist. Only a moron doesn't recognize the necessity.

I have to laugh at the economic pro death penalty argument every time; it might be counterintuitive, but the death penalty actually costs the taxpayers a lot more than life incarceration. Something to do with the endless appeal process or whatever - you can google that shit, it's well known.

Seems rather a bit desperate when folks feel they have to justify the death penalty from that perspective in any case, it's usually an argument that's used when they realize that morally they've lost the discussion. Lols.

don't waste your time Ryoki. this thread will go nowhere, like every other thread on this subject

Heh, wasn't going to really - was mostly looking for something to type whilst avoiding the workload that's built up in the last few days (that'll teach me to take a day off).

It's the same with discussion about guns, religion or the actual shape of gramps' head. We've had quite enough of those and never has someone even remotely convinced someone else.

we got nightshade to leave though.

Was that over a gun discussion? I figured he just got bored of finding new ways to tell us we're all cunts.

Ryoki wrote:I have to laugh at the economic pro death penalty argument every time; it might be counterintuitive, but the death penalty actually costs the taxpayers a lot more than life incarceration. Something to do with the endless appeal process or whatever - you can google that shit, it's well known.

Seems rather a bit desperate when folks feel they have to justify the death penalty from that perspective in any case, it's usually an argument that's used when they realize that morally they've lost the discussion. Lols.

"Cases without the death penalty cost $740,000, while cases where the death penalty is sought cost $1.26 million. Maintaining each death row prisoner costs taxpayers $90,000 more per year than a prisoner in general population. There are 714 inmates on California's death row."

Interesting, I was misinformed. I had always assumed the death penalty was cheaper, with no real knowledge on the matter as I'm in Canada and haven't really cared to research it.

I am in all honesty on the fence about the matter. It doesn't make sense to me to just gather all the degenerates in one place and feed them until they die. The "eye for an eye" ideology of capitol punishment serves no purpose other then to remove them permanently. Maybe we could put them in cells with sex crazed razorback gorillas who will plow them over and over again?

Ryoki wrote:Was that over a gun discussion? I figured he just got bored of finding new ways to tell us we're all cunts.

yeah his marine corps training really let him down there

scared? wrote:Capital punishment is retarded cuz it's way better to be executed than serve life in prison.... Unless ur a moron...

"The Supermax is life after death," said Hood, who served as ADX warden from 2002 to 2005. "It's long term. ... In my opinion, it's far much worse than death."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/13/us/dzhokh ... ax-prison/