Quake3World

losCHUNK wrote: There should have been a number of safeguards in place to protect the public, phoning could've just been one of them. You don't need to be in that situation to understand that an innocent person died at the hands of law enforcement due to incorrect safeguards or complete fuck uppery. You can't give mistakes like this a 'free pass' just because the majority of us have never been in the situation.

Should of, would of, could of. You have all the answers now. Maybe you should be arrested for not preventing this in the first place.

Should, would and could means someone made a mistake when following procedure. If they had followed procedure you'd hope it wouldn't result in an innocent person dying. No should / would / could, if there was then procedure needs to be changed.

There was no clear danger or threat to the police, so the police fucked up. Pretty simple and we have the ability to scrutinise police actions, as even though we havn't been in their situation we could quite easily see ourselves in the victims. Which is actually what Erasure was alluding too, when some of you are too scared to get off your bike.

YourGrandpa wrote:It's interesting to see all the arm chair officers with zero law enforcement training or experience pretend like they know what should/could have been done in situations they've never been in.

"A simple phone call to the house would've cleared it all up." And simply playing the winning lottery numbers will make you a millionaire.

It was a bad shooting. And when the camera footage comes out, itll show that. It dont mean he will get in trouble though. Look at the fuckin moron who literally murdered that drunk guy in the hotel. Let off. Why? Jury didnt get to see the video for "Reasons". And if you dunno what im talking about.
https://thinkprogress.org/arizona-cop-w ... bceda925c/

Dude LITERALLY was begging for his life. The guy who shot him? Itching to fuckin murder people. Dust cover on his rifle? Etched "YOURE FUCKED". He was using his PERSONAL RIFLE on duty. Yeah he was itching to murder someone.

You're an idiot with no law enforcement training. Talk more shit grandpa, I dealt with that dept on a regular basis and they are fucking douche bag extreme. You seriously are the worst kind of idiot.

mr expert here.

Don't even bother replying. You have nothing redeeming to say and clearly no real exp in the field.

Whiskey 7 wrote:

SOAPboy wrote: Ask me about working corrections in KS.

OK, I'll bite. Corrections as in jail I suppose? So 'working corrections' implies you were on the right side of the bars Do tell a little

Bad Story.

Had a girl I was working with on medical one night, take over doing rounds. Soon as she did, Guy hung himself. He knew she was too small to get him down. He died. Totally wrecked her for a while.


Kinda funny story.

Had an inmate whos a bit on the nutter side. But in all reality, hes just a mixed up kid who had shitty parents. But whatever. So another CO is fucking with him, trying to get him all riled up. He does, GO figure. Well Kid wants to beat the shit out of this CO.

Hows he get the CO into his cell? Covers his window, Shits on the floor, and literally covers himself head to toe in shit. CO opens the door. Boom. Shit covered crazy guy on the attack.

Needless to say, CO was covered in dudes shit, had to go home get new clothes, whole 9. Inmate who did it? Got a shower and put back in his same cell. Winner.




The whole things a joke though. More so in "Jails" and not prisons. Jails people still get treated like criminals and over 1/2 the jail population isnt even convicted yet. I watched multiple random people get brought in for bullshit, shit that would get "cleared" as soon as "someone could look into it". Which is just long enough for the state to get paid for that inmate being booked in. Its a racket.

Thank fuck im out of that world. Its depressing to think how many people in locked up for jack shit.

But being a CO can be hilarious when you're not a shit head. Most of my days was watching dominos games and bullshitting about terrible rap music. Like I said, I really never had actual issues in my mods. Couple fights, Nothing major. I do wish I had the video footage of the day that a guy walked up on a guy blind, and threw a full blown haymaker. Was really impressive the dude jumped right back up and was ready to wreck the guy. Still didnt get out of control, Guy didnt wanna goto seg and liked the mod he was in.

I worked face to face corrections. I was either alone in a mod/block with 50ish people. Or with 1 other CO on mods with suicide watches/intake. You were in the pit, with everyone. Not up in a box watching monitors.

Eraser wrote:Seriously though, is it really that bad or is there a huge perception disjoint due to confirmation bias in what people consume on social media related to the subject. I mean, the only cop videos you see are cops being abusive or violent (the majority of the videos) or videos showing the opposite where the cop is usually heralded as "being different" and actually being a cool dude (implying that "good" cops are a rare thing)

''

It really is that bad. Cops far and wide are getting worse in general. Some Depts are trying to clean up the crap but when you're in MERICA land, you get a lot of gun nuts who just wanna shoot things.

Id encourage you to go to parking lots of places like Jails, Police HQs, Etc. Check out the bumper stickers, plate covers, etc. Its all GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS and stickers about "MY FINGERS MY RIFLE RAWR ILL SHOOT U ROAD RAGE" kinda stuff. More so in places like KS and other "good ol boys' states.

My "Trainers" at the jail. Tried to beat it in my head that if they are any color other than white, dont trust them. If they are "in jail" they are "Criminals". "They are lower than human life".

Do you think police training is any different in a lot of places? Really? Hahahahaha. Its the same god damn program. Everyone goes to the same/similar academy down the road.

Now to be fair. I think media coverage is higher, but I've had more bad interactions than good over the last few years. Plus I have noticed that the actual attitude of most of the local cops (city and county) have gone from kinda bad to worse. Theres good cops here, But theres more bad ones these days.

Should / would / could means complete foresight. Something no one has. Furthermore, you wouldn't know if procedure was or wasn't followed. You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass.

Of course it's unfortunate more precautions weren't taken. Of course it's unfortunate that someone died. Of course it's unfortunate that things didn't work out better. Thank you Captain Obviously. But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer.

This is indeed a tragedy. However, it usually takes tragedy to promote change. "Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault. Something most agencies wouldn't initially expect and something that challenges current procedure. Hopefully this incident will encourage new training that will help better vet situations where these types of claims are being made.

YourGrandpa wrote:Should / would / could means complete foresight. Something no one has. Furthermore, you wouldn't know if procedure was or wasn't followed. You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass.

Of course it's unfortunate more precautions weren't taken. Of course it's unfortunate that someone died. Of course it's unfortunate that things didn't work out better. Thank you Captain Obviously. But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer.

This is indeed a tragedy. However, it usually takes tragedy to promote change. "Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault. Something most agencies wouldn't initially expect and something that challenges current procedure. Hopefully this incident will encourage new training that will help better vet situations where these types of claims are being made.

Read my post you fuck. I worked in law enforcement. You're 100% wrong.

More so since I KNOW THE GOD DAMN DEPT AND HOW THEY WERE TRAINED. Holy shit, Read.

EDIT: This also isnt the first time that dept, or other close depts, have used guns instead of ANY OTHER FORM of stopping someone. Cops in this state, Shoot first. You are beaten into your head that EVERYONE is out to kill you.

You're clueless.

YourGrandpa wrote:Hopefully this incident will encourage new training that will help better vet situations where these types of claims are being made.

LOL fat chance.

SOAPboy wrote:You're an idiot with no law enforcement training. Talk more shit grandpa, I dealt with that dept on a regular basis and they are fucking douche bag extreme. You seriously are the worst kind of idiot.

mr expert here.

Don't even bother replying. You have nothing redeeming to say and clearly no real exp in the field.

LOL, fucking tool. You don't have a clue about what or who I know. And you'd be the idiot for thinking you do.

YourGrandpa wrote:

SOAPboy wrote:You're an idiot with no law enforcement training. Talk more shit grandpa, I dealt with that dept on a regular basis and they are fucking douche bag extreme. You seriously are the worst kind of idiot.

mr expert here.

Don't even bother replying. You have nothing redeeming to say and clearly no real exp in the field.

LOL, fucking tool. You don't have a clue about what or who I know. And you'd be the idiot for thinking you do.

Again I live here dickbag. You're clueless.



Cops are super trigger happy here for a lot of reasons other than just pure being pieces of shit like you though. We have super loose gun laws. So long as you're not a felon, you can carry. Our local news had to put a few news stories to tell you if you get pulled over, keep hands on the wheel and don't jerk around at all. Cops here seriously just wanna murder people and now can use that for an excuse (they have, and will again). But what do I know right?

And holy shit if you're not white here. Just turn on that cell phone camera and go live straight to facebook or something so theres a recording.




EDIT: Now, I'm not saying things cant be fixed, But giving these cops any benefit at this point isnt worth it. Not with all the bad shootings as of late. This is just another example of some bullshit that went to full tilt before it needed. There was no need to go in there live fire, they could have used tasers, pellets, all kinds of shit before murdering the kid. Same deal with drunko I linked. Shits out of control and we have cops more armed than some military units. Its nuts. Like, Just at the jail you should have seen our "armory". Way more guns than ever possibly needed. Merica

^^^ Moron Alert

YourGrandpa wrote:Should / would / could means complete foresight. Something no one has. Furthermore, you wouldn't know if procedure was or wasn't followed. You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass.

Of course it's unfortunate more precautions weren't taken. Of course it's unfortunate that someone died. Of course it's unfortunate that things didn't work out better. Thank you Captain Obviously. But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer.

This is indeed a tragedy. However, it usually takes tragedy to promote change. "Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault. Something most agencies wouldn't initially expect and something that challenges current procedure. Hopefully this incident will encourage new training that will help better vet situations where these types of claims are being made.

Obviously I'm basing it on the information available in the public domain, I thought that would be apparent. If you have any further info maybe we'll change our position - We have an unarmed innocent man who raised his hands. Could / would and should in these situations should not be a case, there should be procedure in place to protect the public and, like I said, either that procedure wasn't followed OR procedure needs to be changed, both of which being fuck ups by the police. This would also be the case in any line of work, I'm sure you're well aware of a risk assessment.

As for the public scrutinising police action, it is our duty to do so in a lot of circumstances as this is what leads to oversight, not doing so leads to a 'closed ranks' culture with cover ups of police mistakes or misuse of power and I can give you plenty of examples of such, this is how procedure progresses. It doesn't matter if this form of 'assault' is new or not, whenever armed police with the ability to use deadly force attend somewhere they should have a duty of care for the lives of innocents, plus it doesn't take a rocket scientist (through the use of a risk assessment) to determine that the situation they're attending might be the result of false information.

If it was up to you who's life is more important, you or the police officer's?

Your approach to this situation is like a lot of people with incredibly misguided expectations of law enforcement. It's like you think an officer doesn't have a family or the human desire to survive. Always willing to look past the circumstances leading up to the event in an effort to place full blame on authority. Police officers aren't infallible, they're not computers or perfect. If you endanger their life, you are endangering your own. Because they have just as much right to live as you do... Until you can develop a perfectly functioning Robocop they are our only line of defense against societal violence.

But these officers lives were never at risk, their fear was created in their head through procedure, lack of training or whatever and should suffer whatever repercussions they should get. If I was operating heavy machinery 12 out of every 14 days at 12 hours a day then took off someones leg that would be my fault, if a pilot crashes an airliner due to being sleepy that would be his fault, if someone in the armed services takes off an innocent childs head that would be his fault.

It is not unrealistic in the slightest to hold the police to the standard we are setting. They have training, guidance and a support network to achieve their goals and if a mistake is made it's upto us (to a degree) to scrutinise the situation to find fault. It's not about who's life is more important, it's not about holding them to unrealistic standards, it's about protecting innocent people and like with the armed services their occupation comes with inherent threat, it's why we have procedures, training and the support to reduce this threat even in highly charged scenarios. This situation in particular is a fuck up of epic proportions and is the direct result of either procedure or human error.

I understand the human desire to live but I am also fully aware of the repercussions of my actions and in this situation in particular there was no present threat, just some trigger happy cop who lost his shit.

losCHUNK wrote:But these officers lives were never at risk, their fear was created in their head through procedure, lack of training or whatever and should suffer whatever repercussions they should get. If I was operating heavy machinery 12 out of every 14 days at 12 hours a day then took off someones leg that would be my fault, if a pilot crashes an airliner due to being sleepy that would be his fault, if someone in the armed services takes off an innocent childs head that would be his fault.

It is not unrealistic in the slightest to hold the police to the standard we are setting. They have training, guidance and a support network to achieve their goals and if a mistake is made it's upto us (to a degree) to scrutinise the situation to find fault. It's not about who's life is more important, it's not about holding them to unrealistic standards, it's about protecting innocent people and like with the armed services their occupation comes with inherent threat, it's why we have procedures, training and the support to reduce this threat even in highly charged scenarios. This situation in particular is a fuck up of epic proportions and is the direct result of either procedure or human error.

Chunk gets it. How does gramps not?



Gramps. Its clearer and clearer you've never WORKED in law enforcement nor gone through any training. Chunk actually sounds like hes had first hand exp with it, while you continue to talk like an idiot.

YourGrandpa wrote:If it was up to you who's life is more important, you or the police officer's?

Your approach to this situation is like a lot of people with incredibly misguided expectations of law enforcement. It's like you think an officer doesn't have a family or the human desire to survive. Always willing to look past the circumstances leading up to the event in an effort to place full blame on authority. Police officers aren't infallible, they're not computers or perfect. If you endanger their life, you are endangering your own. Because they have just as much right to live as you do... Until you can develop a perfectly functioning Robocop they are our only line of defense against societal violence.

Ive linked one case where it was clearly a cop wanting to be rambo, not scared for his life. And this current case is another case of someone really fucking up. Neither of these were good shootings.

But we dont get it?

Blue lives matter amirite?

YourGrandpa wrote:If it was up to you who's life is more important, you or the police officer's?

The cop who shot Finch chose to be a cop. Putting one's life at risk and exposing oneself to high levels of scrutiny is part of the job. If you're not willing to take the risk, find another job.

YourGrandpa wrote:Should / would / could means complete foresight. Something no one has. Furthermore, you wouldn't know if procedure was or wasn't followed. You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass.

Of course it's unfortunate more precautions weren't taken. Of course it's unfortunate that someone died. Of course it's unfortunate that things didn't work out better. Thank you Captain Obviously. But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer.

This is indeed a tragedy. However, it usually takes tragedy to promote change. "Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault. Something most agencies wouldn't initially expect and something that challenges current procedure. Hopefully this incident will encourage new training that will help better vet situations where these types of claims are being made.

You're one dumb motherfucker. Jesus christ.

"You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass. "

Neither do you.

"Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault."

No, it's not new.

"But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer. "

Again, you're not law enforcement either, so how can you expect to have any merit in what you're saying?

Because he's fat, lonely, and mentally ill—perfectly qualified to be a cop in the third-world shithole that is the USA.

YourGrandpa wrote:^^^ Moron Alert

Great comeback

Transient wrote:

YourGrandpa wrote:If it was up to you who's life is more important, you or the police officer's?

The cop who shot Finch chose to be a cop. Putting one's life at risk and exposing oneself to high levels of scrutiny is part of the job. If you're not willing to take the risk, find another job.

Everyone chooses to do their job. No one owes their life. Fuck off

Bacon wrote: You're one dumb motherfucker. Jesus christ.

Look at the internet tough guy with cartoon character avatar.

Bacon wrote:"You have no first hand information, you have zero law enforcement experience and you couldn't possibly know the perceived threat. You're just talking out of your ass. "

Neither do you.

I'm also not claiming that procedure wasn't followed or something else could of, should of been done.

Bacon wrote:"Swatting" is still a relatively new form of assault."

No, it's not new.

It's new enough that every agency may not be anticipating it or have a set protocol.

Bacon wrote:"But scrutinizing police action should be reserved for the people who are actually qualified to do so. Not a bunch of emotionally charged know nothings with zero understanding or appreciation for what it takes to be a law enforcement officer. "

Again, you're not law enforcement either, so how can you expect to have any merit in what you're saying?

Again, you know fuck-all about me. You don't know my associations, my personal relationships or my life experience. Let's just say I've had enough exposure to law enforcement over the past 25 years that I can speak with certainty on many topics.

YourGrandpa wrote:I can speak with certainty on many topics

QOTY

and it's only January

losCHUNK wrote:But these officers lives were never at risk, their fear was created in their head through procedure, lack of training or whatever and should suffer whatever repercussions they should get. If I was operating heavy machinery 12 out of every 14 days at 12 hours a day then took off someones leg that would be my fault, if a pilot crashes an airliner due to being sleepy that would be his fault, if someone in the armed services takes off an innocent childs head that would be his fault.

It is not unrealistic in the slightest to hold the police to the standard we are setting. They have training, guidance and a support network to achieve their goals and if a mistake is made it's upto us (to a degree) to scrutinise the situation to find fault. It's not about who's life is more important, it's not about holding them to unrealistic standards, it's about protecting innocent people and like with the armed services their occupation comes with inherent threat, it's why we have procedures, training and the support to reduce this threat even in highly charged scenarios. This situation in particular is a fuck up of epic proportions and is the direct result of either procedure or human error.

I understand the human desire to live but I am also fully aware of the repercussions of my actions and in this situation in particular there was no present threat, just some trigger happy cop who lost his shit.

Your entire comment is based on the notion that someone did something wrong. But you don't actually know. In all of those scenarios listed above, all parties would not be at fault if they were following procedure and an outside variable caused the accident... I get it, you want to hold someone accountable. And by all means, if it's found that the officer is in the wrong he should be charged. But no matter how much training you give, there is always going to be the human element. Challenging that human element sometimes doesn't end well. Unfortunately a lot of people's first notion is to blame the police instead of the person who actually caused the problem.

YourGrandpa wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:But these officers lives were never at risk, their fear was created in their head through procedure, lack of training or whatever and should suffer whatever repercussions they should get. If I was operating heavy machinery 12 out of every 14 days at 12 hours a day then took off someones leg that would be my fault, if a pilot crashes an airliner due to being sleepy that would be his fault, if someone in the armed services takes off an innocent childs head that would be his fault.

It is not unrealistic in the slightest to hold the police to the standard we are setting. They have training, guidance and a support network to achieve their goals and if a mistake is made it's upto us (to a degree) to scrutinise the situation to find fault. It's not about who's life is more important, it's not about holding them to unrealistic standards, it's about protecting innocent people and like with the armed services their occupation comes with inherent threat, it's why we have procedures, training and the support to reduce this threat even in highly charged scenarios. This situation in particular is a fuck up of epic proportions and is the direct result of either procedure or human error.

I understand the human desire to live but I am also fully aware of the repercussions of my actions and in this situation in particular there was no present threat, just some trigger happy cop who lost his shit.

Your entire comment is based on the notion that someone did something wrong. But you don't actually know. In all of those scenarios listed above, all parties would not be at fault if they were following procedure and an outside variable caused the accident... I get it, you want to hold someone accountable. And by all means, if it's found that the officer is in the wrong he should be charged. But no matter how much training you give, there is always going to be the human element. Challenging that human element sometimes doesn't end well. Unfortunately a lot of people's first notion is to blame the police instead of the person who actually caused the problem.

I already said that the person 'swatting' should suffer repercussions but there was an error far bigger between the prank call and death. It's not about finding who's at fault either, it's about finding what went wrong and why, in this situation it was either procedure or human error and I already said we are discussing the information provided in the public domain, you're the one creating your own narrative that *some variable caused an accident*, it's a possibility, but we have nothing to say that. What we have is an innocent unarmed person complying with police requests, if you have any further information then feel free to provide it and I'm sure many of us would change our stance.

In all those scenarios too, I thought it would be apparent that I wasn't citing variables (like an exploding machine, lightning strike or an un diagnosed disorder), every person has a duty of care to adhere to, if an outside variable caused an accident then fair enough but that's not what we're seeing. In all those scenarios above the person would be found guilty in a court of law, we have laws to protect ourselves against the 'human element' and it's a risk factor that everyone has a responsibility toward, some more than others. Down to brass tacks it's like saying "I'm sorry I'm drunk and run over the little girl but my wife left me".

And now the arguements been reduced to 'acts of God', which is quite far from the 'it's not the public place to scrutinise the police'.

YourGrandpa wrote: Your entire comment is based on the notion that someone did something wrong. But you don't actually know

Going from a scenario where the eventual victim isn't threatening in any way and doesn't have the intent to be threatening, to the scenario where said victim is shot by police no less, is such a huge leap that it is quite hard to come up with a bridging scenario where no one has made any significant mistakes. It's not a matter of having to be an expert on these things. I think common sense brings enough to the table that it is pretty safe to draw the conclusion that someone somewhere down the line fucked up big time.

> Kid makes fake call to police. Police go to house and kill innocent man.

Gramps is right, we don't know if anyone fucked up at all. This is all by the book and the expected outcome as stated in the police manual for handling anonymous tips.

The mind boggles