Q4 - Musings (was: pjw)

Discussion for Level editing, modeling, programming, or any of the other technical aspects of Quake
Plan B
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Post by Plan B »

obsidian wrote: That's one of the many myths about the D3-engine. The D3-engine was always capable of creating large, well-lit areas without a significant performance hit. Whether or not you have a single bright light or a darker light doesn't affect performance. You only get a larger performance hit when you have many light volumes overlapping each other.

Primarily, you have to create lighting with the D3-engine differently from what you're used to with Q3 - but well lit maps in D3 is completely possible.

...

I know you can place huge, non-shadowcasting lights to flood an area with light and then add smaller ones that *do* cast shadows.

I have seen some pics on Doom3World.org of map areas that are pretty well-lit, that I *think* were built this way, but I thought that this came at the cost of a huge performance hit.

Or are these non-shadowcasting lights calculated into some sort of lightmap, thus causing *less* of a performance hit?


I am thinking: no.

In the Q4-footage I've seen, the lighting is so abundant that I assumed (and hoped) the developers at Raven also somehow elaborated on the rendering code.

Where maybe, I dunno, lightmaps are combined with realtime light rendering, and lights can be flagged to be included either in the lightmap or be flagged to render realtime.
The lightmap taking up less memory.


Anyway, as you can probably tell, I've been out of it for a while, so bare with me for rambling on a bit :)
obsidian
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Post by obsidian »

With regards to well lit outdoor maps, you only really need 1 shadow-casting light - to represent the sun. Then you can optionally add a second non-shadow-casting light so the shadow volumes aren't pure black (radiosity). This will be a relatively small performance hit and most large outdoor areas are done this way.

The only time when you have huge performance hits due to dynamic lighting is when you have many shadow-casting light volumes overlapping each other, in which case each overlap requires an additional trace.

So rather than scattering a plethora of light-ents throughout a map like we do in Q3, on the D3-engine, we use less lights with each light affecting a greater surface area. Lights work more like a square box now rather than a single point and radius.

Whether or not Raven's done any tinkering with the rendering code no one is willing to say... unless pjw wants to tell (poke, poke).
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pjw
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Post by pjw »

obsidian wrote:Whether or not Raven's done any tinkering with the rendering code no one is willing to say... unless pjw wants to tell (poke, poke).
In lieu of discussing rendering code, here is a mesmerizing picture of David Hasselhoff.

Image
obsidian
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Post by obsidian »

Whoa... why you even have a picture of that makes me wonder... :paranoid:
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Scourge
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Post by Scourge »

pjw is a strange and different person for sure. :)
SonicClang
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Post by SonicClang »

That picture scares me... :icon23:
The number 1 cause of death in games is panic.
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sock
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Post by sock »

Go Go P-J-W !!! Whoooo :P

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obsidian
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Post by obsidian »

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blakjack
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Post by blakjack »

im hoping for some sort of btw cocks reference easter egg rgoer :mad:
AEon
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Post by AEon »

Hi everyone,

just "fixed" to topic to be a tad more meaningful.

Personally I hope several things for Q4 (compared to D3) will be fixed:

1. Bandwidth requirement should be ISDN again (only slightly above that of Q3A)... if it is DSL again like for D3, the multiplayer part of the game and all mapping will be dead for me the second the game is released :(

2. Should the MP part again be DSL, I at least hope for MP bots, that let folks play MP maps offline and still have some fun, like this is pretty much the case for Q3A, since custom maps rarely make it onto servers anyhow.

3. IIRC terrain editing was not part of the editor, it was a modeling tool thingy. The ability to use GTKradiant for terrain editing would be nice... though I doubt that will get any priority.

Other than that I wish Q4 looked more like Q2 (bright, more colors, less dark) and a lot less like D3. IMO these horror themed games are starting to get real lame. For D3 that was OK, but then you have Prey and Fear, and now AFAICT from the screenshots Q4 as well. The new WWII game syndrome all over again, this time for horror...

*sigh*

As that may be, will get the game anyway, sucker that I be ;)
Oeloe
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Post by Oeloe »

Q4 _will_ be much more like Q2 or Q3 (regarding environment brightness), in MP. The SP will of course have it's gloomy parts (a reasonably large portion i reckon), but the D3 engine is in no way limited to 99% shadow maps. Also, for those who are afraid that Q4 gameplay will resemble UT2k4: i wouldn't be afraid for that, since the maps will have a very different style (much less open). What i've seen from the Qcon footage (Fatal1ty playing and other vids) looks quite ok and not dark.
o'dium
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Post by o'dium »

No bots for Quake 4 guys.

Netcode has been changed and tweaked a LOT but it still needs at least ISDN.

Terrain is still model, not world brush. Its also only lit by one light outside which is why outdoor pics look so ugly in Quake 4 (but are fast)
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