Quake3World

Get me a Champion's beta key and I'll do my best to get Donny written on a pilot's helmet in Arubesh

Seems pretty chaotic to me. Catch as much as you can.
But it's Pinewood, always something big going on there.

So, your contract did not include future revenues from merchandize, like this one Kylo-Mask printed by propshop?

Ferrao10 wrote:Congrats, Phant.

Thanks btw

You (within a team, I suppose) did a great job on the mask.
But, I take it, you don't get nothing from farther marketing, merchandize, etc. Cause you were all just outlets.
That is just wrong. System-Failure .

Adding up is the crdits you mentioned, or the lack of.

phantasmagoria wrote:Get me a Champion's beta key and I'll do my best to get Donny written on a pilot's helmet in Arubesh

Done deal

Looking forward to making my Star Wars debut (Albeit in text format)

The price of a man, is too damn high

losCHUNK wrote:The price of a man, is too damn high

We are only dealing with this one man's experiences in the business but there have to be lots and lots unknown to us that are facing the same situation as him.

I mean, I don't know. And I really don't know the US/UK film business.
Maybe it's just the best way to go, going freelance. And then work on as much productions as you can. It can certainly boost your knowledge and fulfill you at the time while you are on the surf. You probably don't get paid very good, though. Cause everyone capeable of doing the job wants to be part of the production. Which plays for the companies cause they can keep every freelanceing individual softly under their thump.
Do freelancers get up in rank? Like, can you Phant, if you continue freelancing, become Director of Production Design?
If not, could you achieve this status in the future when getting employed or is it a union thing?

I do understand that with a 200m$ production you have to fall back on freelancers but it shouldn't be the majority, imo.
And I'm also not the guy that is constantly screaming for unions but in your situation, I'd think about it.

Well I'm pretty sure a lot of studios use outside help for things like prop departments / stunt directors right the way through to effects and editing. I think films these days are so huge that they're just too big and wieldy to be handled all by 1 person. The most recent story I heard was with Suicide Squad that I was mentioning in the movie thread, with re-editing the entire movie using an outside company.

I'm Phants can fill us in . You got any dirt bro ?, any good inside stories ?. I remember you was talking about wearing those Elysium jackets surrounded by Harry Potter props ?, was funny.

I was just saying Donnys price for an invite was too damn high tho

losCHUNK wrote:I was just saying Donnys price for an invite was too damn high tho

Your sentence was too good of a bait to just let it go . Nonetheless, it was just what I had in mind and wanted to address to Phant months ago. Just didn't dare to say mayself. Sorry for distorting your sentence .

Well I'd say we put in an equal effort.

I still want my dirt tho, yo.

Ferrao10, it's the nature of the production companies. Some of the departments are unionised and they have a flat working rate and hours and stuff.. in our dept we actually get shafted because we do it for the love rather than the money and most of us (not counting me, I'm often kicking up a stink) are apathetic when it comes to rates. However, everyone from the director to the trainees are freelance because the production company only exists for 12 months before disbanding, I'm paid SchD but you can be paid PAYE if for some reason you want to get bumfucked for national insurance. Incidentally, I have been freelance for 10 years since the moment I left uni - I don't know why regular people work for regular companies.... I mean I can offset my milage, my computer, my star wars figures, trips to the cinema, my work clothes, my tools and a whole other load of stuff against tax, what isn't to love about that?

The pay is exceptionally good too, I'm not going to tell you what I earn because it's up to YGP and Geoff to brag about bank accounts but if the pay didn't encourage people to work for a production then everyone would either work for a difference one, or leave and work for inhouse companies with all the benefits of working for a regular company. I'm sort of sidestepping into concept modelling now, which when I can get it is a nice little packet. Today I earn more now in 1 day than I did in a week 5 years ago. There are certainly people in worse situations than us

Please start making Star Trek ships one day.

Would you know what the difference in cost to using models when compared to CG ?

It entirely depends on the quality of the models and/or CG. Luckily for us (as physical modellers) at the moment we're enjoying somewhat of a renaissance when it comes to practical effects as the kids that grew up watching Stan Winston effects in the 80s are now becoming directors and want in on the action.

Essentially, it's becoming cheaper and cheaper to use CG, but if you can gain more money on the other end of the process by enticing an audience in with decent practical effects, you make more money in the long run. You always get a better performance from an actor in a real environment holding a real gun wearing real armour. It's application specific really, rely too much either way and you end up making a shit film.

You can also make money with the legacy of a practical prop - look at the long running Hary Potter exhibition at Leavesden ... that must have made Warner Brothers hundreds of millions.

I like the idea of the renaissance . The reason why I asked is because I've always been a massive fan of practical effects / props over CG.

But that's like you said, from a nostalgia I assume - but I argue against that.

For example, which looks better ? (to add to the reasons you had already mentioned)

[lvlshot]https://66.media.tumblr.com/99cbb7dbe9fc1cf537e3393ff6d249e0/tumblr_n648ujNLRL1tu7563o1_500.gif[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://66.media.tumblr.com/85aa48be130dbfbd450f9714943e1cab/tumblr_mvq00fTKh71rzu2xzo1_400.gif[/lvlshot]

It's the same when you look at Enterprise, it's dated pretty badly already and it's not something I see mentioned much beyond kind of 'purists'. I'm guessing those were cost saving measures ?, so a similiar quality prop would've cost more on the bottom line ?

You're doing Gods work, son

phantasmagoria wrote:Ferrao10, it's the nature of the production companies. Some of the departments are unionised and they have a flat working rate and hours and stuff.. in our dept we actually get shafted because we do it for the love rather than the money and most of us (not counting me, I'm often kicking up a stink) are apathetic when it comes to rates. However, everyone from the director to the trainees are freelance because the production company only exists for 12 months before disbanding, I'm paid SchD but you can be paid PAYE if for some reason you want to get bumfucked for national insurance. Incidentally, I have been freelance for 10 years since the moment I left uni - I don't know why regular people work for regular companies.... I mean I can offset my milage, my computer, my star wars figures, trips to the cinema, my work clothes, my tools and a whole other load of stuff against tax, what isn't to love about that?

I am sorry, some things I didn't understand:
"Kicking up a stink" - WTF?
"I'm paid SchD but you can be paid PAYE" - pardon me?
"bumfucked" - I can probably find out that one

"I mean I can offset my milage, my computer, ...and a whole other load of stuff against tax" I can do this with having a solid employement and a half-assed lancing job.

Just saying.

"Kicking up a stink" - Making a fuss
"I'm paid SchD but you can be paid PAYE" - SchD means not being taxed at source. PAYE means you pay tax as you earn
"bumfucked" - A night of google adventures awaits!
"I can do this with having a solid employement and a half-assed lancing job." - I haven't been left wanting for employment in 10 years The times I've been out of work have been by choice, so same thing? only I get paid more because I'm on freelance rates and can chose the work I do?

I don't quite understand your aversion to freelance work to be honest?

"I don't quite understand your aversion to freelance work to be honest?"

Well, maybe it's against our german mindset .

No, to be honest, I've been with the Union since 20 years. It did help me.
Unions can't control the private market. But they can control their markets and thus indirectly influence the private market. But if everyone goes private... well, happy negotiating.

I see what happens when the Union starts loosing control at the company I work for. I, myself, don't give anything for it really cause I'm stil bound within old contracts. But new employees only get 2/3rd of our vacations, 5 surplus hours/week counted into their monthly brutto wage, no holiday money at all. They are pretty fucked. It can' t be. It seperates the workers, creating a rift.

phantasmagoria wrote:only I get paid more because I'm on freelance rates and can chose the work I do?

While you have to pay all the insurances yourself. Health, unemployment, rent, third persons' property (a machinery you fucked up at a strangers' workshop), and so on.
I mean, if all that fits well into your wage, you are a happy man just like I am. I don't really have an aversion, I adore you guys sometimes (lotsa freelancers in Germany as well). It's just nothing for me. I like my steady (lower) income and nothing to worry about.

Ferrao10 wrote:

phantasmagoria wrote:only I get paid more because I'm on freelance rates and can chose the work I do?

While you have to pay all the insurances yourself. Health, unemployment, rent, third persons' property (a machinery you fucked up at a strangers' workshop), and so on.

I guess freelancing works a bit differently over here. I still sign a contract and i still get paid holiday pay and overtime. Everything you listed there (apart from unemployment and health - the latter of which is covered by the NHS) is covered by the company. In fact they pay for wear and damage on MY tools. They also rent my computer from me.

I guess it's more common and more accepted that creatives are commonly freelance in the UK. We should unionise ourselves as modellers, you're right, it's hard motivating people who would rather not stick their head over the parapet though. Even then, that wouldn't affect our employment status, it would just standardise rates.

Ferrao10 wrote:Well, maybe it's against our german mindset .

your german mindset is the reason europe is currently imploding

phantasmagoria wrote: Everything you listed there (apart from unemployment and health - the latter of which is covered by the NHS) is covered by the company. In fact they pay for wear and damage on MY tools. They also rent my computer from me.

Books a flight to the UK.

That is a big difference, I had different assumptions.

Deine Mutter geht in der Stadt huren

Wo ist mein knoblauch?

Knoblaunch ?

[vid]http://i.imgur.com/X4oonnm.mp4[/vid]

That scene makes me feel like it's something Leslie Nielsen would do