Quake3World

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:31 pm**

scared? wrote:Ur pecs are pathetically shaped...

You don't have any pecs.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:42 pm**

GONNAFISTYA wrote:I'm quite sure feedback is. Perhaps andyman is only "curious"?

or perhaps he yearns to be this guy

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:03 pm**

Rudy Reyes played himself, he is that awesome

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:16 pm**

scared? wrote:Ur pecs are pathetically shaped...

your children are pathetically shaped... next

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:48 pm**

meh...one is too fat, 2 are too skinny but the rest are perfectly shaped...u lose...next...

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:00 pm**

andyman wrote:just a future underwear model

jules i don't deadlift, don't know what my max is.

why the fuck not?

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:10 pm**

deadlifts have no place in an oly program. just clean pulls, sometimes clean deadlifts but not in classical cycles, which actually start next monday.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:15 pm**

Deadlifts always have a place in your workout...unless ur a moron...

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:39 pm**

well then you're a moron? what the fuck good is a heavy deadlift if you can't get under it and stand it up? any person can pick up a loaded bar from the ground. takes actual skill and athleticism to get under it and stand.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:07 pm**

andyman wrote:deadlifts have no place in an oly program. just clean pulls, sometimes clean deadlifts but not in classical cycles, which actually start next monday.

wouldn't strengthening your deadlift enhance your ability to produce more power in the cleans?

Here's a quote:

I agree that Olympic weightlifting is an excellent expression of strength through its derivative quantity power. Power is best understood as strength displayed quickly, and as such, power is dependent on strength. You know this because it is blatantly obvious that an athlete with a 500 lb. deadlift has a higher power clean than an athlete with a 200 lb. deadlift. Always true, every time. You cannot clean what you are not strong enough to get off the floor, and the stronger you are the more you can clean. The power that is produced when a weight is accelerated is a function of the ability to recruit the neuromuscular machinery necessary to develop the force to accelerate it. Therefore, another factor plays a large role in the ability to excel in weightlifting – the ability to make the force develop explosively. This ability is heavily dependent on the genetic capacity for explosive movement, and to say that it is predictive of elite levels of performance is a gross understatement.

So, here’s the deal: The snatch and the clean and jerk are not themselves capable of producing an increase in absolute strength over the long term, and are incapable of continuing to produce an increase in their own performance when trained in the absence of heavy squats, deadlifts, and upper-body strength exercises that constitute an absolute strength overload. In other words, programs that rely solely on the snatch, the clean & jerk, their derivative exercises, and front squats in the absence of regularly programmed increases in the basic strength movements do not produce international-level performances for athletes with less than elite genetics or the use of anabolic steroids. Furthermore, it is quite likely that an athlete cannot reach his absolute potential in the Olympic lifts until he approaches the same limit in training his absolute strength. Louie Simmons is on record as saying that we lose in Olympic weightlifting at the international level because we are not as strong as they are. He may be wrong about some of the details, but he is dead-ass on the money in his general assessment.

http://startingstrength.com/articles/we ... ppetoe.pdf

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:24 pm**

No, not after I just mentioned clean pulls.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:27 pm**

Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.

Posted: **Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:29 pm**

Seems Andyman needs lifting lessons...I ain't got time to help u so use google or something...

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:39 am**

You don't lift.

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:19 am**

andyman wrote:Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.

which theories?

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:07 am**

LawL wrote:You don't lift.

I lifted more than u ever will...chump...

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:34 am**

Bags of laundry don't count.

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:09 am**

andyman wrote:classical cycles, which actually start next monday.

for some reason, this made me lol

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:16 pm**

[xeno]Julios wrote:
andyman wrote:Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.
which theories?

The one you posted... the thing is, he only uses oly lifting as a part of his strength programs for his football players. If he and Simmons are so "dead-ass on the money" about having a heavy deadlift carrying over to the clean, why haven't they produced these monster competitors that are dominating the olympic lifting scene in the USA and elsewhere? That isn't happening because their sports are football and powerlifting.
Rippetoe says "In other words, programs that rely solely on the snatch, the clean & jerk, their derivative exercises, and front squats in the absence of regularly programmed increases in the basic strength movements do not produce international-level performances for athletes with less than elite genetics or the use of anabolic steroids".
First of all, no beginner weightlifter is going to be on a pure bulgarian style program so he makes a fool of himself right there. Only the upper echelon, and I'm talking about the people who have been lifting for 5+years and train multiple times a day 6-7 days a week, are going to be utilizing that sort of training style, not his fat ass linebackers. Then he goes on to say that the only reason they are able to move those weights is because of steroids. What a fucking hack.

He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:23 pm**

And by that same logic, a higher snatch deadlift would equate to a higher weight snatch? no. not even close.

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:32 pm**

andyman wrote: He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

Or it is programmed in a WOD

I'd like to see the difference in scores doing 13.4 doing full squat cleans and then power cleans

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:23 pm**

you know what i mean though... not really referring to crossfit in that post.

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:05 pm**

Yeah I get you

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:21 pm**

andyman wrote: He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

I may be wrong, but I think even in a movement like the clean and jerk, the logic still applies?

Personally, I know next to nothing about olympic lifting - I'm more interested in strength training techniques right now, although I can see myself introducing power cleans in the near future. I also can't vouch for whether rippetoe is full of shit on this account, and I don't know what the literature has to say on this (probably hasn't been studied properly).

So, it seems we may be left with anecdotal evidence from different training philosophies, and again, I'm clueless when it comes to this.

What I do find puzzling, however, is the notion that increasing your strength will not have a positive impact on your power output. Do you agree that someone with a 500lb deadlift will be able to generate more power (on movements like the clean and jerk) compared to someone with a 200lb deadlift? If so, do you also agree that the best way to increase your deadlift strength is to train in the deadlift?

Posted: **Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:50 pm**

It would be impossible for heavy dead lift work not to impact the C&J as the start of the movements of both are the same. You still have to get that bar moving and if you can move 500lbs, even slowly, it means you will be able to shift 200lbs from that position quickly. The force generated means you could compensate for a weak shrug. If we look at hang power cleans then thats when your shrug strength (or lack of) will start to show.

Squats will also help with the clean phase of a C&J as you generate most of the power from your initial triple extention movement

Quake3World

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