Well hell may be freezing over (workout)

[andyman]

No, not after I just mentioned clean pulls.

[andyman]

Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.

[scared?]

Seems Andyman needs lifting lessons...I ain't got time to help u so use google or something...

[LawL]

You don't lift.

[[xeno]Julios]

Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.

which theories?

[scared?]

You don't lift.

I lifted more than u ever will...chump...

[LawL]

Bags of laundry don't count.

[seremtan]

classical cycles, which actually start next monday.

for some reason, this made me lol

[andyman]

Jesus fuck rippetoe is an idiot. Abadjiev shits all over his dumb theories.

which theories?

The one you posted... the thing is, he only uses oly lifting as a part of his strength programs for his football players. If he and Simmons are so "dead-ass on the money" about having a heavy deadlift carrying over to the clean, why haven't they produced these monster competitors that are dominating the olympic lifting scene in the USA and elsewhere? That isn't happening because their sports are football and powerlifting.
Rippetoe says "In other words, programs that rely solely on the snatch, the clean & jerk, their derivative exercises, and front squats in the absence of regularly programmed increases in the basic strength movements do not produce international-level performances for athletes with less than elite genetics or the use of anabolic steroids".
First of all, no beginner weightlifter is going to be on a pure bulgarian style program so he makes a fool of himself right there. Only the upper echelon, and I'm talking about the people who have been lifting for 5+years and train multiple times a day 6-7 days a week, are going to be utilizing that sort of training style, not his fat ass linebackers. Then he goes on to say that the only reason they are able to move those weights is because of steroids. What a fucking hack.

He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

[andyman]

And by that same logic, a higher snatch deadlift would equate to a higher weight snatch? no. not even close.

[Don Carlos]

He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

Or it is programmed in a WOD
I'd like to see the difference in scores doing 13.4 doing full squat cleans and then power cleans

[andyman]

you know what i mean though... not really referring to crossfit in that post.

[Don Carlos]

Yeah I get you

[[xeno]Julios]

He also says the guy with a 500lb deadlift will power clean more than the guy with a 200lb deadlift. That's nice, too bad no one power cleans unless you're deloading or you just plain old suck at the lifts.

I may be wrong, but I think even in a movement like the clean and jerk, the logic still applies?

Personally, I know next to nothing about olympic lifting - I'm more interested in strength training techniques right now, although I can see myself introducing power cleans in the near future. I also can't vouch for whether rippetoe is full of shit on this account, and I don't know what the literature has to say on this (probably hasn't been studied properly).

So, it seems we may be left with anecdotal evidence from different training philosophies, and again, I'm clueless when it comes to this.

What I do find puzzling, however, is the notion that increasing your strength will not have a positive impact on your power output. Do you agree that someone with a 500lb deadlift will be able to generate more power (on movements like the clean and jerk) compared to someone with a 200lb deadlift? If so, do you also agree that the best way to increase your deadlift strength is to train in the deadlift?

[Don Carlos]

It would be impossible for heavy dead lift work not to impact the C&J as the start of the movements of both are the same. You still have to get that bar moving and if you can move 500lbs, even slowly, it means you will be able to shift 200lbs from that position quickly. The force generated means you could compensate for a weak shrug. If we look at hang power cleans then thats when your shrug strength (or lack of) will start to show.

Squats will also help with the clean phase of a C&J as you generate most of the power from your initial triple extention movement

[[xeno]Julios]

right, so wouldn't it make sense to program in deadlifts into one's training if their goal is to clean as much weight as possible?

[andyman]

I'm probably coming off as mean, but I already knew that you don't include snatches or c&j's in your training so it is frustrating to see naive comments...

Start doing the lifts and you'll really test yourself! probably find what you've been missing

[[xeno]Julios]

I completely recognize my ignorance with the olympic lifts, especially when it comes to experience. And I also recognize the value in them.

But the question about deadlifts still stands motherfucker!

[feedback]

The only people who don't like deadlifts are people who don't get hard when they lift a lot of weight or like sick v-shaped backs

[andyman]

Front squat PR today, hit 130kg, a +5 pr.

[Don Carlos]

Hmmmmmmm I need to play catch up I think. Your rack will help you with your front squat, no doubt.

[andyman]

today's was tough... was coming off of not much sleep too. kinda bombed snatches but then got my head right and slaughtered the clean & jerks.

snatch
1@ 60
1@ 67
1@ 77
1@ 82
1@ 86
1@ 91
now here is where i just could not get right...
1@ 82 (miss, miss)
1@ 86 (miss, miss)
1@ 91 (miss, miss)
gave up after those pretty much
1@ 82 miss
1@ 86 miss
1@ 91 miss

clean and jerk
1@ 70
1@ 81
1@ 93
1@ 100
1@ 105
1@ 110
1@ 100
1@ 105
1@ 110
smoked every one of those... happy about that

snatch pull
3@ 105
1@ 110
3@ 105
1@ 110
3@ 105
1@ 110

front squat
1@ 78
1@ 91
1@ 105
1@ 111
1@ 117
1@ 125
3x3@ 111

press
4x4@ 57


have to do the same workout thursday, and next monday with workouts all the other days too except sunday, of course. Next saturday is a find new 1rm day for both lifts. desperately want to go at least 100/120

[scared?]

Ur gonna get hurt...

[andyman]

snatch
1@ 60
1@ 67
1@ 77
1@ 82
1@ 86 (miss, make)
1@ 91 (miss)
1@ 82
1@ 86
1@ 91
1@ 82
1@ 86
1@ 91

clean and jerk
1@ 70
1@ 81
1@ 93
1@ 100
1@ 105 (miss clean, make)
1@ 110 (miss jerk)
1@ 100
1@ 105
1@ 110
shoulders were so tired i could hardly even pull under the bar. it was crazy

snatch pull
3@ 105
1@ 110
3@ 105
1@ 110
3@ 105
1@ 110

front squat
1@ 78
1@ 91
1@ 105
1@ 111
1@ 117
1@ 125
3x3@ 111

press
4x4@ 55

yesterdays workout above... today was an pwr snatch/pwr clean day, killed it as usual.

[andyman]