Quake3World

Looks amazing.
I just wonder to what extent z-brush models lend themselves to being exported and used in maps, and at what quality.
(Not that that is some definitive criterium for modeling)

Thanks man.

I not an expert but from what I know Zbrush is mostly used to sculpt hi poly details for characters and props and then they get baked down onto a low poly mesh. The same way I done in the picture above.

Currently, z-brush sculpted models tend to have too many polys to be used directly in-game so yes, they are baking the vectors into the normal map to be virtualized.

You might see interesting things in the future given how Carmack has been talking about voxels.

I see.
So, for now, could z-brush be seen as a 3D normal map texture modeler, if you'd have game purposes in mind?
If so, that sure beats the photoshop plugin I've been messing around with, working from 2D photo references.
(sorry if I seem to be talking out of my ass...I really have to read up on this stuff)

@WHAT: that looks very foxy. Is there an alpha to play-test?

Yes indeed. It's for Warsow.

http://what.iqclan.com/map_whatsparadigmb3.pk3

http://www.warsow.net

Good news too, I'm now a mapper on the development team. Woot woot

Plan B wrote:I see.
So, for now, could z-brush be seen as a 3D normal map texture modeler, if you'd have game purposes in mind?
If so, that sure beats the photoshop plugin I've been messing around with, working from 2D photo references.
(sorry if I seem to be talking out of my ass...I really have to read up on this stuff)

Photoshop plugin?

jeez man, get Crazy Bump!

o'dium wrote:

Plan B wrote:I see.
So, for now, could z-brush be seen as a 3D normal map texture modeler, if you'd have game purposes in mind?
If so, that sure beats the photoshop plugin I've been messing around with, working from 2D photo references.
(sorry if I seem to be talking out of my ass...I really have to read up on this stuff)

Photoshop plugin?

jeez man, get Crazy Bump!

Yes, Crazy Bump is indeed crazy, but unfortunately not free. But if you're serious about game design, it's an essential tool for the old toolbox.

The Photoshop plugin is basically a heightmap to normalmap converter, so it doesn't translate all the vectors as accurately as a real normalmap generated from polygons.

obsidian wrote:
You might see interesting things in the future given how Carmack has been talking about voxels.

That's interesting that you mention that obsidian.

I've been looking in to voxels myself and have been wondering why we haven't been seeing more useage out of them. They're a crazy powerful thing.

It's neat to see that there's some kind of hint towards what Carmack may be working on and that it might be voxel-based.

Well, he mentioned at one of his keynotes at QuakeCon (I think) how he had virtualized textures by streaming them into the renderer using Megatextures, and how his current work is trying to do the same thing of virtualizing polygons. Then he talks about voxels at another conference (can't remember which one) but anyway, that's what he's probably working on. It'll likely be slated for Id Tech 6 if anything, which is a couple of generations from now.

obsidian wrote: Yes, Crazy Bump is indeed crazy, but unfortunately not free. But if you're serious about game design, it's an essential tool for the old toolbox.

The Photoshop plugin is basically a heightmap to normalmap converter, so it doesn't translate all the vectors as accurately as a real normalmap generated from polygons.

Any artist worth his salt will tell you that to get best results you use BOTH a high polygon model and touch ups/finer detail later on

But it does indeed suck hes charging for it, its not cheap either. Its insane the prices he charges, what a rip off for what it is.

I never said not to do touch ups, just that the nVidia Photoshop plugin is really sub-par.

He's not allowed to make money on a piece of software that he spent months to write? He has always stated that CrazyBump will be a commercial software once beta testing is complete, so it's not like he was misleading everyone either.

Why the pissy attitude?

I never said he cant make money off Crazy Bump. But the prices he charges are stupid. If you have a company, $299.99 for a licence is stupid.

EDIT: Remember this isn't Photoshop, its not 3DS Max. Its a photoshop nvidia plug in with a few extra bells and whistles and a real time viewport.

What makes you think I have a "pissy attitude"? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean its a personal attack. You must get mortified every time anyone discusses politics with you.

o'dium wrote:But it does indeed suck hes charging for it

o'dium wrote:I never said he cant make money off Crazy Bump.

$70 for student/teachers, $100 for private users and "indie" developers, $300 for commercial use seems pretty reasonable to me compared to all the other programs out there that people buy for game development, mostly starting at the $1000+ range.

I know the Photoshop plugin is just a "plugin" but I'm comparing the quality of the end result since I was telling Plan B how direct heightmap converted normal maps like the plugin produce poorer quality normal maps. If it's all you have then it'll do, but the end results won't be the same. Basically the plugin takes the heightmap values and translates them to W normals while negating UV normals. Better software like CrazyBump will "fill-in" the missing UV normals using its algorithm. Model generated normal maps are best because it's a direct conversion of XYZ normals to UVW.

Less talk, more screenshots!

obsidian wrote:What makes you think I have a "pissy attitude"? Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean its a personal attack. You must get mortified every time anyone discusses politics with you.

o'dium wrote:But it does indeed suck hes charging for it

o'dium wrote:I never said he cant make money off Crazy Bump.

$70 for student/teachers, $100 for private users and "indie" developers, $300 for commercial use seems pretty reasonable to me compared to all the other programs out there that people buy for game development, mostly starting at the $1000+ range.

I know the Photoshop plugin is just a "plugin" but I'm comparing the quality of the end result since I was telling Plan B how direct heightmap converted normal maps like the plugin produce poorer quality normal maps. If it's all you have then it'll do, but the end results won't be the same. Basically the plugin takes the heightmap values and translates them to W normals while negating UV normals. Better software like CrazyBump will "fill-in" the missing UV normals using its algorithm. Model generated normal maps are best because it's a direct conversion of XYZ normals to UVW.

I've been working with high poly models and local maps for 5 years now... Why do you think I don't know what it means?

o'dium wrote:I've been working with high poly models and local maps for 5 years now... Why do you think I don't know what it means?

Um. I read the end of obsidian's post as "Okay, here's a bit more detail about what I'm thinking, and why I'm seeing this as maybe doing a bit more than a typical plug-in. See if you agree or not."

I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm full of crap, but I certainly didn't read it as somehow saying you're lacking in clueage.

Deep breaths man.

Agree with Fjoggs. There's indeed too much discussion about license costs and stuff for a thread topic like "Screenshots".
Not that I'm doing this thread any favor by stating something like that and not providing any scrnshts by myself... Still, take this as (somehow) granted: During the next few weeks (finally holidays!) I might publish a few pics, let's wait and see.

I need to increase the sky light, much too dark right now (I've had to artifically brighten it in PSP). Also need to fix the leak with the rockwall conntecting with the fort.

A little lift I made, the final model was rendered in 3ds max. By the way, does anybody know how I can set up a glowmap in 3ds max? Right now I did paint the glow of the lights on the diffuse map, in d3 I would have a seperate texture for that. Couldn't figure out how this works in max :?



Overview:
http://www.bja-design.de/models/lift01_overview.jpg

Looking very good BJA. Perhaps you can fake the glow effect by putting alphas in front of the lights.

Very nice lift BJA I think you can make a glow map in max using the self-illumination properties.

Pretty disapointed with the map now, rockwall isn't working out as well as I hoped (been trying to salvage it). Time to start over.

Texture needs work and corners need to be less "square" but otherwise, I don't think it looks too bad.

Thanks obsidian, I consider it high praise knowing how picky you are with Overdose and the Quake 2 rebuild project you're doing. This time I complied with -fast -filter -super 2 rather than the regular -fastest I've been doing. Everything is using phong as well.

The textures are actually ripped from Team Fortress 2, it's amazing how large (1024x1024) and un detailed they are, the normal does all the work it seems. With this map I want to do a more paintery style with warm lights (red base), cool lights (blue base) and cooler shadows. I'm using TF2 textures until the person I'm working with (he doing textures and I doing the map) gets some textures sent my way.

I think that when I remake the rock wall I need more brush based cracks in it and then use some large rock brushes to make the corner junctions and have coming out of the wall. I think this'll give it more of the effect I'm looking for.

The castle is very blocky, in fact there's very little detail to it at all, right now it's just laid out in gameplay terms. I plan on doing it in the traditional Quake 1 style with the medieval/gothic stone, but rather than the dark grittiness have it more paintery style. With some bumpy walls and curvery corners. Should be somewhat comical.

After I'm done and it's too my liking I plan on releasing hunks of the map (like the rocks and rock wall) as *.map files for free so other mappers can use them. Since I'll be using somewhat semi-realistic proportions it should be good for anyone to use.

I'm not working with Overdose or Q2 rebuild, that's O'dium.

lol... I was going to comment on how the map reminded me of the old 2fort from the original HL:TF.

Those compile settings are a bit dated. Try this:
-light -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -bounce 8 -gamma 2 -compensate 4 -dirty
Reduce samples to 1 and bounce 2 for test compiles, to speed things up significantly.

Add some large bouldery kind of rocks as well. By "corners" in my last post, I mean the corners where the rock walls meet, they look too perpendicular to be natural.

The community always enjoys free stuff and newbie mappers can learn from what you have learned.