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Quake3World -
Brexiting is closer than I thought it would be - Page 15
Memphis wrote:Pay for what? More bailouts where we came out worse than everyone else? They probably owe us money.
Yes, i know the UK was a net payer, most north european countries are. I meant pay not as in 'give us bags of money' but as in have fun renegotiating every trade deal, no more juicy EU subsidies, no more access to the EU open market, no more fishing in European waters for your fishing industry, say bye bye to your London based financial institutions that will now likely go to mainland countries in order to save their business, etc etc. Hell, i even read somewhere the Premier League has a major problem on it's hands what with all the European players in that competition.
This a total shitstorm for all of us, but over here most of us seem pretty determined to make you guys feel the hurt more - you wanted this, now you can deal with the consequences.
I wonder if any of you (people who currently live in the EU) would be willing to give me your take on the following excerpted from a Greg Palast interview? TIA.
You have interviewed the "founding father" of the euro, economist Robert Mundell. What did he have to say about the European common currency and its true objectives?
The man who invented the euro is the economist Robert Mundell, whom I've had long discussions with. Mundell said that the creation of the euro was a way to bring the supply-side economics of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to Europe. By creating the euro, he said, you take away fiscal power, monetary power from governments, so if you're ever in trouble, you can't use stimulus spending or change the value of your currency. The only option left is to cut government employment, cut wages, eliminate union power and privatize industry. What happened in Greece was not a mistake, it was not a problem of the euro, it was the program of the euro, it's the purpose of the euro. And Mundell is a Nobel Prize-winning economist, he was the man that created supply-side economics for Reagan, and he actually believed in the long run this would be better for Europe and for Greece -- to get rid of unions and public employment and eliminate regulations which he thought were strangling the economy. This is an old, right-wing, Reagan and Thatcher view of economics which is long discredited. But while supply-side economics is now roundly considered a failed economic philosophy, you're still stuck with the supply-side prison known as the eurozone. The euro is a tool to enforce supply-side, right-wing economics, and everyone is getting hurt by this except the Germans, who have reorganized their economy to be an export machine, because for them, the currency is priced too low.
Doombrain wrote:Calm down, i doubt any of that will happen. people need to start thinking 5-10 years from now, not next year.
Hopefully it won't come to any of that - was trying to express what i think is the general sentiment here.
It's all anecdotal anyways, just folks i talked to. For all i know there's 52% dutchies that want the same thing and i just haven't come across any.
When the referendum was 1st announced, not the date, I thought it was an absolute certainty that we'd stay. To the point that Leave would get under 30%.
I made this thread due to my surprise, seeing that they were within 5% of the opposing side during polling.
[color=red] . : [/color][size=85] You knows you knows [/size]
plained wrote:hope u guys bought in on friday cuz profits are comming in
I was going to buy in, but I did have the spare free cash to chuck anything worthwhile in and not regret the loss. Basically it would have meant my house money being used and I wasn't that confident
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:I wonder if any of you (people who currently live in the EU) would be willing to give me your take on the following excerpted from a Greg Palast interview? TIA.
You have interviewed the "founding father" of the euro, economist Robert Mundell. What did he have to say about the European common currency and its true objectives?
The man who invented the euro is the economist Robert Mundell, whom I've had long discussions with. Mundell said that the creation of the euro was a way to bring the supply-side economics of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to Europe. By creating the euro, he said, you take away fiscal power, monetary power from governments, so if you're ever in trouble, you can't use stimulus spending or change the value of your currency. The only option left is to cut government employment, cut wages, eliminate union power and privatize industry. What happened in Greece was not a mistake, it was not a problem of the euro, it was the program of the euro, it's the purpose of the euro. And Mundell is a Nobel Prize-winning economist, he was the man that created supply-side economics for Reagan, and he actually believed in the long run this would be better for Europe and for Greece -- to get rid of unions and public employment and eliminate regulations which he thought were strangling the economy. This is an old, right-wing, Reagan and Thatcher view of economics which is long discredited. But while supply-side economics is now roundly considered a failed economic philosophy, you're still stuck with the supply-side prison known as the eurozone. The euro is a tool to enforce supply-side, right-wing economics, and everyone is getting hurt by this except the Germans, who have reorganized their economy to be an export machine, because for them, the currency is priced too low.
first time i've ever heard this. the austerity in Greece is basically a disguised bailout for French and German banks (Greece's biggest creditors) btw
even if it's true, it clearly isn't the current purpose of the euro. countries like Italy and Greece joined the euro because they wanted Germany's credit card (to buy BMWs of course)
seremtan wrote:
first time i've ever heard this. the austerity in Greece is basically a disguised bailout for French and German banks (Greece's biggest creditors) btw
even if it's true, it clearly isn't the current purpose of the euro. countries like Italy and Greece joined the euro because they wanted Germany's credit card (to buy BMWs of course)
How much freedom is there to introduce stimulus if an economy lags? Is fiscal policy set by individual nations or by the EU (and is there any interference by the EU if the former)? Thanks man.
losCHUNK wrote:Are you sure ?, we only had to wheel Osbourne out yesterday to assure the public that everythings is gonna be ok when the pound refused to stabalise.
plained wrote:hope u guys bought in on friday cuz profits are comming in
I was going to buy in, but I did have the spare free cash to chuck anything worthwhile in and not regret the loss. Basically it would have meant my house money being used and I wasn't that confident
i get that.
adhering to the responsible priorities are the cornerstone of success!
Don Carlos wrote:
I was going to buy in, but I did have the spare free cash to chuck anything worthwhile in and not regret the loss. Basically it would have meant my house money being used and I wasn't that confident
i get that.
adhering to the responsible priorities are the cornerstone of success!
pay attention for future reference tho for sure!
I'm still doing on with my purchases at the moment, just none of them have been big buys. Little by little.
seremtan wrote:
first time i've ever heard this. the austerity in Greece is basically a disguised bailout for French and German banks (Greece's biggest creditors) btw
even if it's true, it clearly isn't the current purpose of the euro. countries like Italy and Greece joined the euro because they wanted Germany's credit card (to buy BMWs of course)
How much freedom is there to introduce stimulus if an economy lags? Is fiscal policy set by individual nations or by the EU (and is there any interference by the EU if the former)? Thanks man.
As far as I am aware, I don't think there is any freedom on the continent. I think part of the problem with the credit crunch is that member states couldn't dip into their central banks (controlled by the ECB) and the EU were being tight. Uncertainty rose and the Euro fell like a brick until the ECB came out with a fiscal strategy. Britain was however different as it kept the pound, so could make its own choice.
[color=red] . : [/color][size=85] You knows you knows [/size]
seremtan wrote:
first time i've ever heard this. the austerity in Greece is basically a disguised bailout for French and German banks (Greece's biggest creditors) btw
even if it's true, it clearly isn't the current purpose of the euro. countries like Italy and Greece joined the euro because they wanted Germany's credit card (to buy BMWs of course)
How much freedom is there to introduce stimulus if an economy lags? Is fiscal policy set by individual nations or by the EU (and is there any interference by the EU if the former)? Thanks man.
countries in the eurozone have about as much fiscal freedom as Nunavut or Wyoming, i.e. very little
however at least wealthy states/provinces can recycle their surpluses in Nunavut/Wyoming. there's no mechanism in the eurozone to do the same in Greece
eurozone members are essentially reduced to the level of individuals. when they get into debt, the only option they have is to pay it back the old-fashioned way, one buck at a time
Dunno about that - we have been downgraded as a country credit wise, which means it will cost more for banks to lend which means mortgage rates will be higher. The BOE might then lower interest rates to counter balance the credit downgrade which gives less returns on savings etc. Expect a lot of fixed rate savings products to be pulled in the coming weeks. Nothing will be set for more than 1 year...2 and 3 year fixed ISAs or bonds will be gone because its too much of a risk to banks to pay out on interest rates for savings that could become negative. How are savings relevant? Well banks usually pay for interest on savings via the profits for loans and mortgages and if the cost to the banks is higher then they will pass that on to the customer. The BOE will expect banks to pass any cuts from the base rate drop onto the customer, which is unenforceable. So banks will try and make their profits by not dropping prices and this could in turn also cause banks to be a lot more particular about whom they lend to. Less mortgages = less sales = stagnation and eventually the dropping of prices. Keep an eye on data from the CML in the coming year.
