President Trump

[Eraser]

A Biden win will set politics in America back 20 years and get us an even worse Trump in 2024.

Proud Boys is the way forward

[Captain]

Regardless of how we ended up with these poor choices, that's all we have. Go back to keeping the "same bs" or the loss of our democracy entirely. To me personally, Joe Biden is the plug in the leaky dam. I voted him to get back to some semblence of stability as a country so we can at least go back to focusing on how to comabt everything you described (again, I agree).

This I'm in agreement with to a degree. If I were a sane American like you, I'd also be voting for Biden over Trump. My criticism wasn't over your choice out of these two, it was about the danger of ignoring what Biden stands for and being prepared for a continuation of the Obama-era status quo: expansion of hegemonic wars, destabilizing countries, environmental catastrophes, etc. etc. I feel like America is past the point of return on bringing a progressive platform to power, but I'll touch on this in the next paragraph.

I personally am a huge supporter of Elizabeth Warren, I also like Bernie, and AOC is just a blessing to me. The truth is (as tough as it is for me to swallow) is that the progressives America needs to heal and get on a path of correction isn't possible at the current moment in America. Joe Biden is the ONLY candidate that would lure away Trump voters, independents, and undecided voters. With help from Project Lincoln (yes, i know George Conaway is the reaosn Clinton is impeached and yes I also am fully aware that once this objective of getting rid of Trump they will go back to their normal partisan hack games), Repulican Voters Against Trump (RVAT), and other similar groups the only focus is saving America from further destruction. In short, Biden is a stopgap and nothing more.

So this is where I feel things fall apart when it comes to progressive leadership. Warren started her campaign trying to siphon voters from Bernie by appealing to progressives, then as time went on her true republican colours came out and she began slipping more and more to the right of center, the sweet spot for her corporate banking donors.

From the beginning, there were good reasons for progressive leftists not to trust that Elizabeth Warren was on their side. For one thing, she had spent much of her career as a Republican, and only recently become a champion of progressive causes. Warren worked at Harvard Law School training generations of elite corporate lawyers; did legal work for big corporations accused of wrongdoing; collected donations from billionaires; held secret meetings with investment bankers and major Democratic party donors; and stood up and applauded when Donald Trump vowed that America would “never become a socialist country”. Even at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, her most prominent initiative on behalf of ordinary borrowers, Warren brought in former Wall Street bankers, tasking financial foxes with guarding the henhouse.

But lately, Warren has finally begun to make her true feelings clear, and progressives no longer need to wonder whether she’s with us or not. She’s not. Warren released a Medicare for All plan that called it a “long-term” plan, which leftwing political analyst Ben Studebaker pointed out is “code to rich people for ‘this is all pretend’”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rogressive

When I first heard about AOC, I was a bit intrigued, but still hesitated to call her a progressive. I followed the campaign of misinformation and attacks she and Omar faced from both parties, but it was pretty blatant when she fell in line and called Pelosi her "mama bear". The DNC has made it very clear since defrauding Bernie in 2016 that they are against anything resembling progress. Anyone in congress who steps out of line will suddenly face a re-election opponent with full DNC media and corporate backing.

Bernie, for all intents and purposes, seems by far like the most genuine human in American politics, but overall his foreign policy is not nearly as strong as what Jill Stein and the Greens presented. I would call him a moderate stepping stone to progress, and had the DNC not screwed him in the last two elections, he'd easily be the front-runner against Trump. I'd go as far as to say countless lives around the world and in your own country would've been spared if Bernie had rightly been the Democratic nominee in 2016. He may have even become the first US president since Hoover who didn't start a war while in office. His problem was that in the end he was still beholden to the DNC, for whom the concept of socialism is apocalyptic. Except for the rich of course.

Actually, glad you brought this up. I do what I can to not support anything I don't believe in with my wallet. For instance, I HATE BoA and I refinanced my house away from Wells Fargo due to them funding oil pipelines accross Native American reservations. Some of us are working really hard to do ALL we can to do the right thing.

Good on you man, it's difficult but it makes a difference.

If we really want to get into the details of the 'dumbing of America', I believe our lack of investment into public schools and teachers is deliberate as an uneducated society is easier to manipulate. My daughter and son-in-law are teachers and they way they are being treated is horrible. I had to help provide covid supplies since the school would not. I had to purchase a webcam for her because she was requied to teach in-class students at the same time as online students while also being expected to protect the classroom from assailants. It's insane the things we expect from our teachers for less pay than a management role at McDonalds.

100%. Paraphrasing Che Guevara, a nation of educated people is a nation that cannot be indoctrinated or conquered by outside forces. He was absolutely right about that and I think the military-industrial complex learned a lot about the generation that opposed the Vietnam War. Your TV programs got dumber, the food got junkier, and blind servitude became synonymous with honourable patriotism. I don't see millennials or gen z changing that anytime soon. I mean just look at gwamps, he's going to do everything to make sure his son turns into a proud blue line bootlicker. The poor kid will probably even join the army or become another racist Florida cop just to make dad "proud".

I can't deny some of these arguments as I feel similar about them. I would say that the only chance we have (like you) are the progressives but experts argue we've gone too far and the fall of this democracy is inevitable. We can only make the best decisions we can at the moment and hope for the best while preparing for the worst. It's a sad state of affairs and I feel personal anxiety about the entire thing and I'd love nothing more than to unplug and walk away and go back to my ignorant life but I can't. I refuse to be manipulated.

Honestly I think I feel your pain. Watching America's obsession with culture wars and politicizing every single thing has made me expedite the plan for my girlfriend and I to move to Finland. This insanity is already taking over Canada and I think it's only going to get worse when the conservatives come into power in the next election. Our top two choices here are dangerous christian conservatives and corrupt neoliberals, followed by a democratic party that over the last decade has become more and more neoliberal, and a green party that has just elected a centrist leader committed to nothing but platitudes. Then we've got the fringe far-right extremists who think the conservatives aren't extreme right-wing enough, who become less and less fringe every day with the growing anti-masker 5G plandemic anti-vaxxer pro-Trump conspiracy crowds.

I will also agree that this is a bi-partisan mess that got us here. However, it's a fact that Trump is colluding with foreign powers to steal this election and has colluded with them in 2016. He's a traitor of the worst kind and a lot of his GOP enablers are just as if not more guilty than Trump. Never in my life would I think there would be a day where an American would choose Russia over a fellow American (GOP'ers have worn shirts that they would "rather vote Russian than Democrat).

I'd say that's already been ingrained in American politics for a long time with AIPAC and other foreign lobbies. Their sole purpose is to vet politicians and make sure they will choose Israel over their own country if given the choice.

In 2016 I stood by my morals and i felt good about voting independent (I've been one my whole adult life and have mainly voted the same way). I've been a big advocate to get the independent vote numbrs up higher so we can get them on the national debate stage, to break up the 2-party, divide and conquer system. I also never imagined Trump would win. In hindsight, I wish I voted for Hillary even though I can't stand her. I'd even argue that I believe Joe Biden is a step up from Hillary. Despite his policies, he appears to be a decent human being in comparison to he current Traitor-in-Chief.

Hillary is even more of a war-loving monster than Obama, just her shrill cackle after Libya had been turned into a smoking pile of rubble with open slave markets could've made Goebbels blush. She'd have lined up her cabinet with the same people as Obama and Bush and continued the proxy wars, weapons deals with Israel and Saudi Arabia, selling debt to China, and attacks against democracies through NATO. The only difference is that her PR team would've been far more effective than Trump at hiding their crimes. I'd wager the same issues of infrastructure, public health, education, poverty, and social inequality would've stayed the same.

I would definitely not call him a decent human being over his years of racist policies or being a sitting vice president for one of the most murderous administrations in US history. In an ideal world he'd be tried for war crimes along with the rest of the oval office.

Trust me, I want the orange fat fuck in chains as much as you do, but just like with Obama taking over from Bush, there will be zero judgment or accountability for the crimes that have been committed by Trump's administration. Maybe a couple low-level stooges get sent to minimum security for a few months for tax evasion as a symbolic gesture so people on twitter can proclaim "AMERICA IS BACK" to take up the mantle of world police and champion of democracy once again.

[Captain]

Also gwamps is definitely voting for Kanye in 2024 hoping that black people will want to be friends with him.

[seremtan]

i still can't get over the fact that gwamps thinks that voting for Trump in 2020 will avoid "an even worse Trump" in 2024 :olo:

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

i still can't get over the fact that gwamps thinks that voting for Trump in 2020 will avoid "an even worse Trump" in 2024 :olo:

classic gwamps

[shaft]

lol. I hope Biden gives his son Javankas old job and then he opens up a resort that he can go to every weekend to funnel our tax dollars into his pockets.

[seremtan]

funnel our tax dollars into his crack pipe.

[Captain]

Lol the fatass who barely survived covid thinks Biden is bad and Trump is just fine. What a fucking moron... :olo: ...

:olo:

[YourGrandpa]

i still can't get over the fact that gwamps thinks that voting for Trump in 2020 will avoid "an even worse Trump" in 2024 :olo:

So nothing but an emoji... Got it.

If you think a Biden win isn't a win for corporate politicians, the status quo, a suppressive media and won't put the democratic party back to sleep, and quell the rise of more parties in the future you're a moron.

[YourGrandpa]

Lol the fatass who barely survived covid thinks Biden is bad and Trump is just fine. What a fucking moron... :olo: ...

6'2" 208lbs and flat bench 225lbs for 10 in the third set. I'll fly to your shit hole and smack you with my fat dick... LOL

BTW, I don't think Trump is fine. I think Biden is worse.

[Captain]

Yeah because Trump's America is what you've always wanted. The freedom to bash gays, shoot protesters, deport non-whites, kill anyone who doesn't suck off the army and cops. Even though you're too much of a pussy to join your fellow proud boys, it's enough to make you ignore the fact that orange man's #1 priority is corporate profit and suppressing media freedom.

This despite the fact that he's worse at business than you are at turning a motorcycle you blockheaded blubberball :olo:

[Eraser]

Good news everyone! Trump ended the corona pandemic! At least, that's what the white house says and who are we to doubt them?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/2 ... mic-432827

[lars63]

Well no worries then,(sigh), what a relief!

[Doombrain]

BTW, I don't think Trump is fine. I think Biden is worse.

Jesus fucking Christ :olo:

[seremtan]

imagine going into lockdown #2 knowing Trump has won term #2 :dork:

might as well drink bleach

[Don Carlos]

might as well drink bleach

Through the anus

[seremtan]

bleached bum'oles

[Eraser]

So Trump is hard at work sabotaging the elections with lawsuits to have votes blocked (I believe both in Wisconsin and Texas) and we all know he has the postal service neutered to make mail-in voting difficult.

Must be a great feeling to vote for someone who is obviously cheating and just not giving a fuck about that

[Transient]

But Biden is worse. Come on, man!

[Eraser]

A [s]nice[/s] harrowing summation of Trump's inability to deal with Corona virus.
[youtube]IuVo4fnpLC8[/youtube]

[raw]

Gramps represents the FloridaMan stereotype loud and proud :olo:

[raw]

Here is Trump Jr. inciting violence
https://twitter.com/aimee_swank/status/ ... 61/video/1

Here is what happened after Don Jr.‘a message (watch the entire video thread progress)

https://twitter.com/ericcervini/status/ ... 21025?s=21


Here is Trump defending the attack on the adversarial Presidential candidates campaign
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 50592?s=21

This is America after 4 years of this assholes divisive void of any real leadership.

I don’t get the logic that voting for Trump 2020 will prevent a Trump 2024. Even if the goal was to let him get his 2 terms over with, who’s to say he’s going to leave or not give power to a family member once he finishes replacing our entire government with loyal servants who will serve him over the oath they took to the American people?

Quite a moronic gamble on someone who is a career con-man and known liar with no known credibility.

The mental gymnastics I have to even attempt to rationalize such an idiotic game that Gramps has laid out is just impossible. There is no scenario where this is a smart play.

[Captain]

[youtube]dpIkl2QnJeI[/youtube]

[raw]

I would definitely not call him a decent human being over his years of racist policies or being a sitting vice president for one of the most murderous administrations in US history. In an ideal world he'd be tried for war crimes along with the rest of the oval office.

Fair points. Please allow me to clarify this 'decent human being' comment a bit. I do believe in start contrast to what the Orange hate machine, I feel Joe Biden does care about Americans despite where he stands politically.

By no means am I challenging your statements about his misgivings. My point is, with the two shitty choices, one does at least give the appearance of empathy and care. I'll settle for that as sad as it sounds.

The Orange traitor will burn everything he touches.

[raw]

I am so not looking forward to the civil unrest this asshole has ignited and supported.