Quake3World

So you object to religious fundamentalism.

For crazy christians, look west. Or south, if you're MQ. After all, the moslems may be censoring pictures but at least they're not putting "errata" in evolution textbooks.

Honestly though, all this shit about decency annoys me. You'd have to be some sort of serious pervert to deny images of the human form to other people on the grounds that it might arouse them to lewd acts or other bullshit. It's no coincidence that religious leaders regularly get done for abusing people in their care.

SplishSplash wrote:There's a lot more crazy muslims than crazy christians over here.

Jeez man, you had Luther. Isn't that enough crazy christians for one country?

I know there are cultural differences here that confuse things, but can somebody explain to me in plain language, how a muslim head scarf is any different from a Scarlet Letter that every woman has to wear?

Sure some women wear them voluntarily, but there are also gay people who go through their whole lives with self-imposed denial and secrecy, due to religious indoctrination and brainwashing that tells them they are sinners for having those thoughts.

That doesn't make it fucking right.

Like I said earlier, everyone should be allowed the freedom to wear it if they want to, except in certain circumstances of course, as long as it's their own choice.

But having said that, I'd challenge anyone to logically argue that telling a woman she doesn't have the right to show her face in public isn't a form of opression. Frankly, it's pretty disgusting to me.

Muslim woman quits after threats
By Chris Morris
BBC Europe correspondent


The latest letter to Naima Amzil's employer contained two bullets
A Muslim woman in Belgium who received national attention after her employer was targeted with death threats has left her job.

Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt said he was disappointed and he vowed that the people responsible for the threats would be caught.

Ms Amzil is originally from Morocco. She has been singled out because she is a Muslim and she wears a headscarf.

The latest in a series of letters sent to her employer from a group calling itself New Free Flanders was too much for her.

The letter contained two bullets and said an execution was being prepared. It also threatened to poison produce made at the delicatessen factory in west Flanders where she worked.

When I arrived here in my headscarf Rik said it was no problem. I never thought there would come a time when I would take it off.

Cliticians and trades unions have condemned the threats but Ms Amzil has now succumbed to the pressure and resigned.

The first threatening letter was sent to her boss, Rik Remmery, in November; a series of others following, containing threats of arson and murder.

Mr Remmery and Ms Amzil were congratulated in the media for refusing to give in to blackmail.

King Albert invited them to the royal palace in a very public show of support. But the letters kept coming and, for the moment, the people responsible for sending them have got what they wanted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4315837.stm

Massive Quasars wrote:So then they cost the same? If that is the case, my objections aren't as strong as they would be otherwise. Unfortunately though, that leads to segregation of children along religious lines (in different schools), that's unlikely to create a healthy situation in european society.

obviously, these schools are not Dutch government initiatives, but because we do have, as opposed to some other countries, a true democracy, the government thinks there should be room for people of a ethnic minority to have 'their own places'. Which indeed doesnt help integration. Democracy is self-contradicting, isnt it great?

R00k wrote: But having said that, I'd challenge anyone to logically argue that telling a woman she doesn't have the right to show her face in public isn't a form of opression. Frankly, it's pretty disgusting to me.

this is an interesting issue btw. On its own, the idea is great. The head scarf, so to speak, dates back a long time, from when people were roaming the planet in small groups since density of population was still very small. So you would be happy to see someone from another 'tribe' so you could shag him/her. When the first major city on this planet arose (in some arabic country by the way), this behaviour amounted to major problems (jealousy is a bitch). People couldnt go around anymore, trying to shag everything they hadnt seen before. So some clever thinkers 'invented' the head scarf, because males still had the dominant role ofcourse AND male's tend to lose control when they see naked flesh.

Im putting things very simple here, but this is what it comes down to. The idealogy is great, the rest that comes with it is not

Massive Quasars wrote:So you object to religious fundamentalism.

anything in the extreme is generally bad. hanging your life onto a book which was written by man, be it the bible or the koran, is idiocy. religion isnt bad, but people take it to fuckin seriously. if we all would just look at it as a good guidance instead of law, there really would be less problems on this planet. imo, religion is the root of all evil, simply because mankind isnt capable of handling it properly. some day, it might work though

dmmh wrote: obviously, these schools are not Dutch government initiatives, but because we do have, as opposed to some other countries, a true democracy, the government thinks there should be room for people of a ethnic minority to have 'their own places'. Which indeed doesnt help integration. Democracy is self-contradicting, isnt it great?

These muslim girls wouldn't find it necessary to go to muslim schools if this french law did not exist. The law simply forces their hand so that they must go to muslim schools if they choose to continue wearing the hijab.

dmmh wrote:

Massive Quasars wrote:So you object to religious fundamentalism.

anything in the extreme is generally bad. hanging your life onto a book which was written by man, be it the bible or the koran, is idiocy. religion isnt bad, but people take it to fuckin seriously. if we all would just look at it as a good guidance instead of law, there really would be less problems on this planet. imo, religion is the root of all evil, simply because mankind isnt capable of handling it properly. some day, it might work though

I was clarifying Splish's position, not judging him in that post.

Massive Quasars wrote:

dmmh wrote: obviously, these schools are not Dutch government initiatives, but because we do have, as opposed to some other countries, a true democracy, the government thinks there should be room for people of a ethnic minority to have 'their own places'. Which indeed doesnt help integration. Democracy is self-contradicting, isnt it great?

These muslim girls wouldn't find it necessary to go to muslim schools if this french law did not exist. The law simply forces their hand so that they must go to muslim schools if they choose to continue wearing the hijab.

still havent heard me yet have you? there is no law over here that forbids women to wear one in schools, only if they occupy a role in a government organisation...

Massive Quasars wrote:

dmmh wrote:

Massive Quasars wrote:So you object to religious fundamentalism.

anything in the extreme is generally bad. hanging your life onto a book which was written by man, be it the bible or the koran, is idiocy. religion isnt bad, but people take it to fuckin seriously. if we all would just look at it as a good guidance instead of law, there really would be less problems on this planet. imo, religion is the root of all evil, simply because mankind isnt capable of handling it properly. some day, it might work though

I was clarifying Splish's position, not judging him in that post.

i know

dmmh wrote: still havent heard me yet have you? there is no law over here that forbids women to wear one in schools, only if they occupy a role in a government organisation...

In France, you're wrong. My criticisms have mainly been about France, and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe.

Freakaloin wrote:well its a life...and then u kill it...what do u call that? tuff love?

People kill the food you eat too, but I wouldn't call that murder.

I have no interest in getting into an abortion debate, I just wanted to point out a logic flaw