Quake3World

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:no it doesn't


edit: oops

They should normalize that data to the percentage of the whole US population each state is, to rule out population size as a contributor to that data.

...and also show that data for previous and subsequent years since 1998, to see trends in homicide rates for each state over the years.

Jackal wrote:

Massive Quasars wrote:The penile system is meant to reform. He's a prime candidate for reformation.

ROFLMAO - i think you mean the penal system. Penile = related to penis.

but you make an excellent point.

Dek wrote: Eye for an eye..

i find that sentiment to be rather unenlightened.

Canis wrote:

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:no it doesn't


edit: oops

They should normalize that data to the percentage of the whole US population each state is, to rule out population size as a contributor to that data.

...and also show that data for previous and subsequent years since 1998, to see trends in homicide rates for each state over the years.

one of the local radio stations was spouting shit about this and it's amazing how similar the dj's banter was to this thread: a discourse filled with half-answered questions, half-assed arguments and less than half the facts on either side.
also, in that episode, Richard Prior commentary:
male announcer: "He was an inspiration to comics everywhere"
stupid ass female announcer: "Even white comics!"
male announcer: "(pause) yeah."

grow up

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:

Canis wrote:

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:no it doesn't


edit: oops

They should normalize that data to the percentage of the whole US population each state is, to rule out population size as a contributor to that data.

...and also show that data for previous and subsequent years since 1998, to see trends in homicide rates for each state over the years.

They havent shown the amount based on population, rather just geographical location. I think it would be interesting to see if there's a correlation to population density.

Additionally on the death penalty, I thought most of the folks on death row were black, but it turns out most of them are white, at least according to the stats in the "interactive" section on the http://www.cnn.com website (two links right in the middle). The number of executions also seem to be dropping off after an upward trend starting in the 70s-80s according to the second link there.

canis, don't reply to my posts as you can't understand the significance of them.

thank you

prince1000 wrote:grow up

make no mistake;
I don't take the subject material lightly, it's the idiots arguing it that slay me, yourself included.

puff, with the only one in this thread showing any kind of data to back your argument, I can't help but still point out that there are multiple contributors to these things, such as economy, wars, etc. etc. that should be taken into account

im not argueing a case for his innocence, though he may very well be, but rather that i can't see any way to justify being put to death for anything. i know it's hard to understand, your head being full of ground beef and all...

Underpants? wrote:puff, with the only one in this thread showing any kind of data to back your argument, I can't help but still point out that there are multiple contributors to these things, such as economy, wars, etc. etc. that should be taken into account

yeah but surely you can see how the first graph says something about the notion of the death penalty as a deterrent.

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:canis, don't reply to my posts as you can't understand the significance of them.

thank you

No...I'll respond to what I wish, when I wish. Its your choice whether or not to respond, and my quoting of your posts isnt directed to you, but is rather an invitation for discussion to everyone, so dont let your egocentric nature get the better of you. You've already proven in the past that you're quite idiotic and bullheaded, lets not go there again.

I think killing him is extremely short-sighted.

Here we have the original founder of the biggest - or maybe second biggest - violent gang in the nation. Since being locked up, he has devoted enourmous time and effort into keeping people - especially kids - from making the bad choices he has made.

Again, this isn't just some common homicidal joe - this is the one person who has the ear of a massive number of violent gang members, and who is willing to try to convince them to stop violent activities.

And we're killing the fucking guy? :icon27:

Canis wrote:

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:canis, don't reply to my posts as you can't understand the significance of them.

thank you

No...I'll respond to what I wish, when I wish. Its your choice whether or not to respond, and my quoting of your posts isnt directed to you, but is rather an invitation for discussion to everyone, so dont let your egocentric nature get the better of you. You've already proven in the past that you're quite idiotic and bullheaded, lets not go there again.

okay apologist

what does population density have to do with whether the death penalty is a deterrent?

nothing so cram it simp

prince1000 wrote:im not argueing a case for his innocence, though he may very well be, but rather that i can't see any way to justify being put to death for anything. i know it's hard to understand, your head being full of ground beef and all...

Ultimately its a matter of opinion, and there are claimed riteous arguments on both sides of the issue. There's data suggesting more crime comes from the death penalty, but much of it is correlative, and only proves a trend. In states where there are more executions are there more murders?

Texas had a murder rate of ~7 in 1998 according to some data, whereas Louisiana had a rate of ~13 (nearly double). Texas, however, had many more executions (over 75) than Louisiana (26-50) despite also having not more people on death row (by a LARGE number 87 vs 446). So the number of executions doesnt correlate to the number of murders in this situation, as well as in numerous other situations. Additionally, in Puff's graph above, many of the states there have very low populations, so it would be more relevant to have that data normalized to population density. The sources for these numbers are from CNN.

EDIT: In 1998 alone (as opposed to cumulative data) there were 0 executions in louisiana and 20 in texas...

prince1000 wrote:im not argueing a case for his innocence, though he may very well be, but rather that i can't see any way to justify being put to death for anything. i know it's hard to understand, your head being full of ground beef and all...

I've been on the fence for some time about this, then again have never been a victim of violent crime, where that opinion might change. Imagine the person closest to you slaughtered for a few paltry dollars by a person who's never been a functional member of society. You learn after some research that this isn't an isolated event; that prisons are overwhelmed with this type of scum. What if after even further research you learn that some of them are let out after such crimes because of the overpopulation problem, and that indeed your new friend was let go after a 10 year sentence for murder (aka manslaughter), to perpetuate his destiny and, susequently, yours. What would be your thoughts, then?
No one mentions murders committed inside the instittution by this type of person, either?
many questions, dunce100000000, many questions...

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:

Underpants? wrote:puff, with the only one in this thread showing any kind of data to back your argument, I can't help but still point out that there are multiple contributors to these things, such as economy, wars, etc. etc. that should be taken into account

yeah but surely you can see how the first graph says something about the notion of the death penalty as a deterrent.

underponce? is from colorado i think, nowhere near mattering in regards to violent crime and gang members like that of depressed inner city blighted communities so no, he does not see that nor hear that in the slightest

Being the victim of a crime doesn't render someone an instant authority on legal punishment. When you see those news articles where someone's been found not guilty, or had a lighter sentence than anticipated, and then you get to hear from the victims about how they think it's not enough..... that's bullshit.

The legal system isn't there as a mechanism for revenge. At least, it shouldn't be. Any judge or lawyer will confirm this.

Underpants? wrote:

prince1000 wrote:im not argueing a case for his innocence, though he may very well be, but rather that i can't see any way to justify being put to death for anything. i know it's hard to understand, your head being full of ground beef and all...

I've been on the fence for some time about this, then again have never been a victim of violent crime, where that opinion might change. Imagine the person closest to you slaughtered for a few paltry dollars by a person who's never been a functional member of society. You learn after some research that this isn't an isolated event; that prisons are overwhelmed with this type of scum. What if after even further research you learn that some of them are let out after such crimes because of the overpopulation problem, and that indeed your new friend was let go after a 10 year sentence for murder (aka manslaughter), to perpetuate his destiny and, susequently, yours. What would be your thoughts, then?
No one mentions murders committed inside the instittution by this type of person, either?
many questions, dunce100000000, many questions...

blah blah, that scenerio is played. of course i would be angry but i'm sound in belief that i would still not want to see the murder of another person, no matter. i may feel contrary when/if the time comes but that's just reaction.

prisoners being set free is a totally different problem that goes much deeper than there being too much 'scum' in prisons.

what the fuck do you care about murders in prison either when you want to see these people dead anyway? moot...

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:what does population density have to do with whether the death penalty is a deterrent?

nothing so cram it simp

I wont comment on the naivity of that statement. The number of murders (being the benchmark for "deterrant") has much to do with population density. Cram more people together and there's a much higher probability a few of them will have at each other. That's probably a good reason why most of the blue bars in your graph there correspond to low population states (granted there are a few outliers). Normalizing it to population density will get rid of density as a factor contributing to the number of murders at a given time, and validate that data as opposed to having it include that factor and skew the data.

actually, there is no violent crime problem proportionate to LA here, you are correct. So by being correct about the size of population of gang members in my state, you must be also correct about the death penalty being wrong. gg, well played. I will delete all my comments in this thread and go home.

@genius100000000

Foo wrote:Being the victim of a crime doesn't render someone an instant authority on legal punishment. When you see those news articles where someone's been found not guilty, or had a lighter sentence than anticipated, and then you get to hear from the victims about how they think it's not enough..... that's bullshit.

The legal system isn't there as a mechanism for revenge. At least, it shouldn't be. Any judge or lawyer will confirm this.

I totally agree however my comments lean in the general direction of prison rehabilitation, and, more directly, of rehabilitation in general of predatory personalities, being a sociolotgical, psychological or genetic phenomenon.

Underpants? wrote:

Foo wrote:Being the victim of a crime doesn't render someone an instant authority on legal punishment. When you see those news articles where someone's been found not guilty, or had a lighter sentence than anticipated, and then you get to hear from the victims about how they think it's not enough..... that's bullshit.

The legal system isn't there as a mechanism for revenge. At least, it shouldn't be. Any judge or lawyer will confirm this.

I totally agree however my comments lean in the general direction of prison rehabilitation, and, more directly, of rehabilitation in general of predatory personalities, being a sociolotgical, psychological or genetic phenomenon.

how is death rehabilitation? do you mean premptive rehabilitation? that's something i can agree with...

and i would guess that there's a 99% chance that the state had absolutely nothing to do with the rehabilitation of stanley williams other than the fact that they clothed, fed, and housed him for 20 someodd years.