Quake3World

CZghost wrote: for losChunk, well told

I'm not condoning the deaths of innocents or anything but the Palestinian population wanted war. The charter of Hamas (who were elected) calls for the destruction of Israel, they are a terrorist group and I just find it ironic that there's outcry for intervention in this case, where it seems like Hamas are the clear aggressors VS somewhere like Syria, who are oppressed and die by the thousands everyday. It's natural to feel sorry for the innocents, however, in contrast to Syria then Gaza is a theme park but instead it's all about freeing Palestine. Do our populations wish to support bat shit insane leaders now or someshit ?.

Free Palestine, for sure but don't do it like this, I wouldn't want to see a 'Free Palestine' under the leadership of Hamas and I think that's what Israel have their eyes on. Who the fuck is gonna support a trigger happy country ?, even Egypt have turned their backs on them and closed off their borders. The only thing stopping Gaza from going back under Israeli control is the public outcry that would surely follow, any other country would acknowledge it for what it is - a war - and invade. If the Palestinian population want peace then overthrow Hamas, or let Israel do it for you. There's no point getting angry at the guys your countries government is bombing for retaliating.

The combined votes for Hamas and Fatah, who are almost as bad as Hamas was 85% n all.

losCHUNK wrote:

scared? wrote:What did Hama's blow up? Show us...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pa ... _2014#July

So nothing really... Interesting...

BTW... Karma would be that one of Israel's non existent nukes would accidentally explode causing a chained reaction with the other 500... ...

I'm not fan od a war, nor American way to solving conflicts. I never will believe in the goodness of American army help as it always continues with new bomb attacks from the side of the arabian people. Do not believe what channel news will tell you of their shits, make your own opinion.

scared? wrote:
So nothing really... Interesting...

Only 80-100 rockets a day, over an area the size of Wales... That's like, 2500-/+ a month ?, 30000 a year ?.

At this rate, assuming each rocket lands, then by the end of the year they could bomb each .75sq/km of Israel. Highly conservative estimates too, only a handful of days had <100 rocket attacks in a month.

But nothing seems to actually get hit... Weird...

Moron...

Oh so now we're only counting the ones that cause death and destruction, not the ones that are intended to.

If you're doubting that they're firing the rockets then everyone, including Hamas, Iran, UN and Israel are confirming the attacks. The frequency is up for debate cos I can't be arsed to fact check 2500 rockets.

Retard.

Grow up Zionist dipshit...

Paki

losCHUNK wrote:Maybe, like, if Hamas stopped blowing shit up they wouldn't have an excuse to get fuckt

While I believe the role of Israel is despicable, I also believe that the Palestinian people should tell Hamas to fuck off and go away, because it's Hamas' rocket shooting that gives Israel a reason to shoot back.

Who knows who have started, if Israel or Hamas, but it won't stop until one of the side will capitulate. And I believe that Islam people are not all terrorists, they just have another religion and another laws. Terrorists are not much religion fanatics with strong believe in Islam, but mainly political dictators, that lie the nation and also some their own people. Behind everything stands bussiness, these wars and conflicts make big money, so it will never stop.

and then there's these guys:

There is a compelling argument to be made that Israel has no legitimate right to exist. 

Before the formation of Israel, Muslims and Jews had coexisted with little problems in the same region. 

 After 1948, that changed. 

Aside from the bible, what claim do Jews actually have to the land they now occupy? There have been many attempts to establish a Jewish state in the past, one of the first I think was in Russia. If I recall correctly, Africa was also a possibility. 

 Israel is a European answer to a problem created by Europeans. Hundreds of years of persecution and treatment of Jews as subhuman. In typical imperialist style, the Europeans dumped their problem in somebody else's back yard. 

If Europeans really want to atone for past crimes, move Israel to Germany. 

 Be under no illusion that this conflict is different to any other. It is about resources, not religion, not the right to self defense, or any other nonsense put out there by mainstream western media. Hamas is an excuse. This is about control of the gas field that sits off Gaza. Just like the occupation of the rest of Palestine is about the annexation of oil fields. 

Israel is short of gas. They have ambition to export gas to Europe, to help solidify European support. 

 Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country. It's assault on Gaza is in itself a violation of the treaty on occupying powers. 

Israel is a dangerous rouge state. It is guilty of crimes against humanity. I'm shocked to read the support some of the members here continue to maintain. 

for dONKEY

dONKEY wrote:There is a compelling argument to be made that Israel has no legitimate right to exist. 

Before the formation of Israel, Muslims and Jews had coexisted with little problems in the same region. 

 After 1948, that changed. 

Aside from the bible, what claim do Jews actually have to the land they now occupy? There have been many attempts to establish a Jewish state in the past, one of the first I think was in Russia. If I recall correctly, Africa was also a possibility. 

 Israel is a European answer to a problem created by Europeans. Hundreds of years of persecution and treatment of Jews as subhuman. In typical imperialist style, the Europeans dumped their problem in somebody else's back yard. 

If Europeans really want to atone for past crimes, move Israel to Germany. 

 Be under no illusion that this conflict is different to any other. It is about resources, not religion, not the right to self defense, or any other nonsense put out there by mainstream western media. Hamas is an excuse. This is about control of the gas field that sits off Gaza. Just like the occupation of the rest of Palestine is about the annexation of oil fields. 

Israel is short of gas. They have ambition to export gas to Europe, to help solidify European support. 

 Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any other country. It's assault on Gaza is in itself a violation of the treaty on occupying powers. 

Israel is a dangerous rouge state. It is guilty of crimes against humanity. I'm shocked to read the support some of the members here continue to maintain. 

What was Palestine before 1948 ?, from what I can tell the countries in that region were formed after the British mandate, before which it came under rule of the Ottoman empire. If Palestine was under rule of a Muslim conntry there would be no issue and if the arab population accepted the borders then Israel wouldn't have had any excuse to retain land after the wars. People were displaced in the same way after the Pakistan / India separation. Gaza was given back to the Palestinian people in 2005 ?, at which point Hamas claimed victory and ramped up effort on terrorism, so from the outsider looking in, I can understand why Israel in that situation would not want to give up more land on their front door step.

I know they are commiting atrocities btw and my main issue is that USA and Germany ?, should not be supporting them. The UN should probably kick them out too.

Regardless of Israels initial right to exist though, the fact is they're now a sovereign country, you can't absolve the borders back into palestine and be run by the Arab population with such a high population of Jews. In other words nothing would change in a single state solution. The only thing that would please Hamas would be forcing all the jews back into the sea, which is why I think Palestine need to take the initial steps towards peace and make them out to be the good guys, remove Hamas and try regaining their lands in a peaceful way. Israel would have no choice and no excuse to retaliate.

What's the likelihood this conflict will ever be resolved? Slim to non, and that's generous.

Any outside influence would be a waste of time and money and life. Anyone in the area (both sides) should just cut their losses and find a different home. Of course, that will never happen. Too religious and stubborn...

I agree, so many states that emerged from European imperialism are arbitrary lines drawn on a map. In many respects though Israel is different. Israel is a direct result of a particular European problem. Shit like this http://rt.com/usa/176820-pentagon-idf-unrwa-ammunition/ is what infuriates me.
This conflict, like every other is about resources. The disinformation routinely spewed by western media, to say is biased, is such an understatement, it's not even funny.
Don't even get me started on the partition of India. What happened to the Punjabi homeland?

Yes, definitely. Anyway, everywhere there are war conflicts (Israel against Hamas, Afganistan, etc) will never stop since war is nowadays just a bussiness like everything else, including politics and lobbers.

dONKEY wrote:I agree, so many states that emerged from European imperialism are arbitrary lines drawn on a map. In many respects though Israel is different. Israel is a direct result of a particular European problem. Shit like this http://rt.com/usa/176820-pentagon-idf-unrwa-ammunition/ is what infuriates me.
This conflict, like every other is about resources. The disinformation routinely spewed by western media, to say is biased, is such an understatement, it's not even funny.
Don't even get me started on the partition of India. What happened to the Punjabi homeland?

It wasn't just European imperialism though, the lines in Syria for example were drawn up under rule of the Ottomans, a state within the empire. Before which it was the Romans ?.

Israel nearly ended up in Africa, Uganda I believe but opted for Israel because of the high and increasing population of Jews anyway so partitioned the land of the Ottoman empire, whilst creating Iraq, Jordan, Iran along with Syria as countries, the Arabs then attacked and people got displaced shortly afterwards. Technically if Israel shouldn't exist then neither should they, if Arabs had accepted the Jewish state then no one would be displaced and could have voted in the same way as anyone else in Israel. What happened in India / Pakistan was a mess, I only mention it to draw a comparison and to look at how those 2 countries have managed to tolerate each other over the years to the point where now both countries are accepted states without any mention of giving Pakistan back to India.

Regardless of what the conflict is over though, wether religion is used for a tool of power (which it always has been), for Palestine to move forward they need to get rid of Hamas and fight for their land a peaceful way. That for me is the only way this can move forward, Israel would have no choice but to risk looking like bullies, both Egypt and Israel would have to lift blockades under threat of international sanctions etc. Remember it's not just Israel creating this 'open air prison', Gaza has 2 borders.

I've already given my opinion on what the western world should be doing with their support though and that the UN should take action against Israel for what they're doing. They should also take action against us lot for the Iraq conflict n all.

This is only utopia. War now makes big money since soldiers are well paid from their missions, that way the war became a bussiness, so when a bloody conflict appears somewhere, US army and members of NATO immediately jump here fighting their money off. It's not important where the bloody conflict appears, these guys will always turn the conflict into a war and no matter, who has begun, it will never end untill any side of conflict will be blowed out. It's a sad example of imperialistic thinking of governments and bussinessmans. You do not have to look for bussiness, it's everywhere.

dONKEY wrote:Aside from the bible, what claim do Jews actually have to the land they now occupy?

according to these guys, the Torah explicitly forbids the formation of a Jewish state prior to the coming of the Messiah

Two levels of crazy means the crazy gets cancelled out, right?

In other words... Fuck Israel...

Two opposite levels you want to say, right?