Quake3World

Eraser wrote:representatives (experts)

Look what happens to America when you put a non expert in charge

losCHUNK wrote:text wall

you're playing a game of "i'll judge you on what i say you think, not what you actually think"

if that survey had come back with top three reasons to leave as

1. hatred of foreigners
2. hatred of brown people
3. want to go back to how it was in 1970

you'd lap it up without a moment's hesitation. but instead it says something that's inconvenient and uncomfortable for a lot of remainers: that they give rather less of a shit about democracy than all their virtue-signalling on the subject would lead you to believe, and are rather more swayed by somewhat grubbier economic reasons than they care to admit

p.s. i voted remain, before anyone starts

losCHUNK wrote:Look what happens to America when you put a non expert in charge

so far, not a lot. America is bigger than Trump

seremtan wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:text wall

you're playing a game of "i'll judge you on what i say you think, not what you actually think"

if that survey had come back with top three reasons to leave as

1. hatred of foreigners
2. hatred of brown people
3. want to go back to how it was in 1970

you'd lap it up without a moment's hesitation. but instead it says something that's inconvenient and uncomfortable for a lot of remainers: that they give rather less of a shit about democracy than all their virtue-signalling on the subject would lead you to believe, and are rather more swayed by somewhat grubbier economic reasons than they care to admit

p.s. i voted remain, before anyone starts

I was just arguing the pic and expanded upon the wider picture, like the bone idled rhetoric from the 'leave' campaign. It has nothing to do with them giving a crap about democracy, infact you could apply the same label to me as I'm arguing against a democratic decision believing that the publics been duped.

If 1 or all of those reasons were about the economy, which apparently isn't a good enough reason for the majority of 'leave' voters, then I could've argued against things like the 12 bln gained from not funding the EU would probaly be countered by the £ tanking and the increase in fuel prices without tariffs, or the rebates we get (almost half) off of that 12 bln, or the apparent loss in investment that's upcoming, the job creation etc. I didn't suggest that this was about racism, I was saying the public was promised things they will never have but already had.

seremtan wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:Look what happens to America when you put a non expert in charge

so far, not a lot. America is bigger than Trump

Cos it's still being held together by experts.

losCHUNK wrote:stuff

just one problem with your "we wuz duped" story: if that were the case we'd have seen a collapse in the Leave poll numbers in the months after the referendum once the "deception" had been uncovered - but this hasn't happened. they've held firm at the same 52/48 split. not much sign of regrexit

i can see there's no point continuing to argue this if you're just going to base your arguments on claims about what Leavers thought that have no empirical basis

losCHUNK wrote:Cos it's still being held together by experts.

no it's being held together by the constitutionally mandated division of powers that means there's only so much damage one orange chimp in the White House can do

seremtan wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:stuff

just one problem with your "we wuz duped" story: if that were the case we'd have seen a collapse in the Leave poll numbers in the months after the referendum once the "deception" had been uncovered - but this hasn't happened. they've held firm at the same 52/48 split. not much sign of regrexit

i can see there's no point continuing to argue this if you're just going to base your arguments on claims about what Leavers thought that have no empirical basis

Cos I still believe that they're duped, I've said why I think that, through false promises. The polls are still over the place, as even though they still want article 50 to be pushed through there's still strong opinions about remaining part of the single market and such.

You say I have no empirical basis, assuming that I based my reasoning behind a racist population and only stating that the underlying issue was the economy (based on ?), but I was the one that provided arguements and counter arguements to that without any kind of assistance from your point of view. So not really much of a discussion anyway.

seremtan wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:Cos it's still being held together by experts.

no it's being held together by the constitutionally mandated division of powers that means there's only so much damage one orange chimp in the White House can do

You mean 'experts'

seremtan wrote:

Eraser wrote:representatives (experts)

Didn't mean to say our representatives are experts, only that our political representatives are analogous to your experts.

look, i get what you're trying to say: everyone who voted Leave is either a seething xenophobe or a sucker who got duped

i just happen to think you're (mostly) wrong about that

good luck winning these people back with that attitude!

seremtan wrote:look, i get what you're trying to say: everyone who voted Leave is either a seething xenophobe or a sucker who got duped

It's Trumpism

A snake oil sales patter by popularist movements to gain the support of the common folk whilst singing from the same hymn sheet as those they're told to mistrust. Or 'duped' into thinking they're getting something they either won't get or already have due to our politicians having a pissing contest

I never even suggested it was about xenophobia either, you said that in your 1st reply.

I could try winning people over by arguing the points, but I was the only one providing both sides of the arguement...