AEdm7 - AEon's DM 7 Redux - Final!

[Pat Howard]

Come to think of it, that shot does remind of the movie. Might be hilarious to add a "dinosaur" roar that either gets rarely (randomly) triggered or when you actually touch that gate

Haha, go for it! That's the kind of stuff people will remember the map by.

[phantazm11]

Yeah, AEon. Just had to post and say that this level looked great to start with, but you managed to make it look 1000% better. Makes me want to go back and work on my temple level again!

[Quack]

I woud like to see a flying dinosaur circling the map. Try extending skybox to make room for a func_train that contains transparent image of a Pterosaur flying around the map maybe?

[AEon]

Well the "roar" at the gate is in the map.

About the "flying dinosaur" - that may be interesting to look into. I had not planned to use a portal sky, but placing the dino into one would probably be the most elegant way to do it. And have it "screech" from time to time. Trouble is... were do I get a texture for it from... a silhouette of the dino with spread out wings would probably be enough.

Hope to finish off the rock wall in the RL2 arena today, and add the texture blending between rock-vine and rock. And add a few more plants.

[AEon]

Finished the rock face in RL2 arena, also added alpha blend between the vine greenery and the plain rock. Works quite nicely (thanks to Sock's previous work, obviously):

• 

I played the RL2 arena yesterday and I am actually starting to like this 2nd arena more than the RL1 arena - did not thing that this is actually possible . Seems to show just how much the plants and the rocks will make you feel at home in an area of the map. The off the main path Quad arena - as "cave" - should really turn out interesting.

Still need to add some hanging vines on the rock.

[Pat Howard]

Sock's textures/models and Tabun's decals are perfect for each other. I'm not sure why other artists have not tapped into the grungy metal & jungle aesthetic in the past. Just goes to show how many possibilities there still are if you feel creative and have the resources to make it happen.

I really wanna play. I hope you finish this one and ship it off to LvL.

[Hipshot]

Just goes to show how many possibilities there still are if you feel creative and have the resources to make it happen.

No shit - I have a list =)

[AEon]

Pat,
yo, the map will be upped to LvL... its one of the reasons I keep mapping, because there at least a few folks, other than the mappers here at the forum, who will actually take a look at the maps.

Added some hanging vines (from the rocks) plus added a few plants up on the rocks:

• 

Will need to do something about the shadows the vines cast... hmmm... would be best to turn that off completely, if possible.


Strange how the ideas developed:

• Started off with evillair's texture set because I needed one for Quake IV, that I could also use for Quake III (for bot tests), so it *had* to be custom textures. And I wanted a "classic" look from Q4DM1 (I love that map)... After looking into the source of Tabun's last map I learned (first hand) about his really nifty decals. And the work on the template texture set (AEcell) made me look *very* closely at "good" textures out there. So I found Tanbun's Q2 textures and DOOM doors, that had previously not been used (much?). After the tech got smudged up, it became clear this is not a map somewhere in the snow, it had to be very humid for the metal to actually "rust" this way, so a new skybox was needed and plants. After looking at the maps out there that actually had plants, it became clear that only Sock's POM would do the job. And that lead to taking a look at rock creation. Oh, and to use conveyor belt APs was an idea from thomasc4... they actually have a plausible sound in the map. If I had finished the map 3.5 years ago, it would never have turned into this.

I'd love to also use POM's sound scape... they *really* would fit the map... but I'll try to find my own sounds and use those instead. Still looking for nifty dino sounds, and jungle ambiance.

[Hipshot]

Trans w/o alphashadow should do the trick for your wines.

[AEon]

I took another look at Sock's POM map in-game and there the vines cast nice shadows. I'll take another closer look at the situations were Sock used them, I have the feeling that the mixing of vine textures with the blend textures may be an issue, just noted:

Code: Select all

textures/aedm7/pom_vine06		// Dangling from ceiling edges
{
	qer_editorimage textures/aedm7/pom_vine06.tga
	qer_trans 0.99
    // Does not do anything it seems!
	q3map_backShader textures/aedm7/pom_vine06_back
	q3map_vertexScale 2
	qer_alphafunc greater 0.5
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm trans
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm nomarks
	cull none					// Need to see both sides! (Remove for patches!)
	{
		map textures/aedm7/pom_vine06.tga
		rgbGen vertex
		depthWrite
		alphaFunc GE128
	}
}

textures/aedm7/pom_vine06_back
{
	surfaceparm trans
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm nomarks
	{
		map textures/aedm7/pom_vine06.tga
		rgbGen const ( 0.2 0.2 0.2 )
		alphaFunc GE128
	}
}

I had to add the cull none because the _back shader and the other side of the vines were *not* visible when you place them on *one face* of a nodraw brush. And I also noted that on patches the pom_vine06 shader actually works *and* the back side is actually darker. The cull none was creating flickering though.

So this seems to mean that using nodraw brushes vs. patches is not interchangeable when using "decal-like" textures... hmmm...

Update: Well it was not the cull none (that's was cause the flickering on the backside of the textures in real time). It's my lighting options... it seems dark, dirt, and/or bounce are conflicting with "proper" alphashadows. Preparing a compile image sheet to show how the options play into the lighting.

Update 2: The -dirty option in my light compile is not only messing up the shadows of the vines, but also the shadows of the vertex lit plants. Try as I would - by placing extra lights - the harsh shadows on the plants (the ferns especially) would stay. Nice that the -dark option works, since it really makes the corners more interesting.

[Hipshot]

My ivy looks like this:

Code: Select all

textures/hipshot_m8/ivy_5
{
	qer_editorimage textures/hipshot_m8/ivy_5.tga
	qer_alphafunc greater 0.5
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm trans
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm nomarks
	qer_trans 0.99
	cull none 	
	{
		map textures/hipshot_m8/ivy_5.tga
		blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ZERO
		alphaFunc GE128
		depthWrite
		rgbGen identity
	}
	{
		map $lightmap
		rgbGen identity
		blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
		depthFunc equal
	}		
}

I use this on patches, models and brushes with nodraw, no problem, looks the same.
My reason to use lightmap instead of vertex is because it just doesn't look good enough on these that can be pretty large in the level.

[AEon]

Some test compiles - explicitly shown as a reminder to myself. I was seeing very strange lighting artifacts in AEdm7 that were not an issue in POM. So it had to be an issue on my part. It turns out that some light compile options have some "ugly" side effects.

All compiles use the "base" options: -light -v -fast -patchshadows

• a) _pom 219s
  • -samples 2
  b) _pom_dark 224s ... edges dark... looks nicer!
  • -samples 2 -dark
  c) _pom_bounce 741s
  • -samples 2 -bounce 8
  d) _pom_dirty (messed up vertex lighting on plants and vines)
  • -samples 2 -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32
  e) _bounce_dark_dirt
  • -samples 3 -dark -bounce 8 -dirty -dirtscale 3 -dirtdepth 32
  f) _dark_bounce
  • -samples 3 -dark -bounce 8

• 

Comments:

• It turns out that the "simple" light settings in POM a) already yield nice lighting.
• Adding the -dark option in b) accentuates the "corners" of the geometry, and also works with the phong shaded terrain, so will be using it.
• Strangely enough a -bounce 8 in c) only very slightly brightens the texture surfaces (slight bleaching out even). I would have thought it would have more impact visually. One thing it does is up the light compile time by 4x.
• The -dirty ... options in d) mess up the lighting under the vines on the rock face (bottom left of image). The dirty effect seems to be relatively subtle, so dropping it to make the vine lighting work is not much of an issue.
• e) shows the same issue with the vine shadows on rock (obviously), and this was the way the map used to look.
• f) new "final" light compile dropping the -dirty options.

As mentioned in a previous post, the lighting on the fern models was also messed up by the -dirty, so I can finally breath more easily now that that issue is fixed.

Next: Testing Hipshot's vine shader.

[AEon]

Comparing vine shaders: Sock's vertex shader a) (see my shader post) with the lightmap shader Hipshot uses b):

• 

• The shadows seem to be identical (probably, obviously ).
• The vertex looks quite acceptable IMO, meaning the lightmap version is not significantly better, at least not in this context.
• The lightmap shader follows the the lighting on the surface of the vines more exactly, i.e. the light source I placed is brightening up the vines. Looks not so great, but that is not the fault of the shader, but of the light I placed here.

I am keeping the vertex shader for now, because I like how the back side of the vines is shaded darker. But I'll also keep the lightmap version, possibly for all the vines hanging from the ceiling. Thanks Hipshot.

Sock,
was there a specific reason why you func_grouped the vines on simple patch meshes? I have a pair of merged simple patch, and two of those next to each other, and I seem to see issues at the edges of these two patches. So disconnecting the patches, placing them in one func_group could actually improve the issue?

[+JuggerNaut+]

that's gorgeous, AEon

[AEon]

AEdm7 - AEon's DM 7 Redux - r173 Beta 2

• [lvlshot]http://aemap.hugelaser.com/map-aedm7_beta2.jpg[/lvlshot]

Changes:

• Closed off a few corridors with gates.
• Removed two of the four TPs, and the remaining two are one-way only now!
• Moved several weapons and items, i.e. the Quad, RA, YA, RG, ...
• Many custom textures added by Tabun (decals, DOOM gate, Q2 crates), Hipshot ("Swirl"), Sock (POM), and AEon (AEcell decals).
• Plant life and rocks based on Sock's Pyramid of the Magician.
• Custom sounds added from freesound.org, collected by Speaker.
• Updated "forest" skybox by Mighty Pete, sun higher in the sky.
• Colored indirect lamps added in corridors.
• Using Hipshot's vine shader (lightmapped) in this release, -bounce 8 was *not* used.
• Many other changes...

Download:

• • map-aedm7_beta2.zip (9.93 MB) @ hugelaser.com
    (Install: Unpack the .zip into your baseq3\ folder, run the map via in-game skirmish button. The BSP is names aedm7.bsp.)

Todo list:

• Add more vegetation, place rock walls in several corridors, turn the Quad arena into a cave.
• Start hinting.
• Possibly change the layout slightly (depends on feedback).
• Cleanup .pk3 and shader.
• Add team location markers.
• There is an issue with the GL JP and bots in the RL2 arena. No idea why that is.
• Quite a few other things...

Feedback:

• I am mainly interested in layout / gameflow feedback. Pat I'd be very much interested in your thought . There could probably be more ammo in the map, and also more health, did not give it much thought yet. Suggestions for any sort of improvement welcome.

[cityy]

I don't have much to say - it looks cool and still playes very well in TDM/FFA.

I'm not really sure about the position of the RA. I think it is too easy to cover at the moment. Maybe switch the RA with the YA you can reach with the accel pad. Currently taking this YA is more dangerous than taking the RA.

In the LG "room" there is too much health IMO. Maybe remove one or two 25s here and place them elsewhere.

I think I said it before but IMO the TP in the Quad room worked very well. When I played some tdm I had a hard time to find an opponent to frag.. I think a one way TP leading to the GL of one of the main rooms would be nice here - but maybe it's just me

Off Topic:

Where did you find your inspiration for this map sheme? I always wonder how you can even get the idea of all these awesome details.

[AEon]

I started off by taking a very close look at the design of q4dm1 (geometry, breaking up of wall elements with angled brushes etc.)... then used a variation of them for different "wall" elements that I use in several areas as building blocks. The layout is in part also q4dm1 inspired, e.g. the path above the MH passage, and the "windows" to the RL1 and RL2 arenas. I liked the idea to be able to look into an arena from different height levels thus the design got going. Interestingly, I would presently not be able to come up with it again...

What I was actually thinking back 3.5 years ago I have no idea... back then I seem to have known, and I was pretty darn fast to create the basic layout, that has almost not changed (other than blocking a few doorways)... strange.

Something that might help you in principle: I defined a path width, and several ramps to let me "scale" heights in a modular way - plotting paths. AEtime also started this way. If the height difference is too high for ramps to scale, I add a JP. I also try to add APs for fast gameplay, bridging gaps. Ironically in AEmars that approach did not really work so far. But what I find most important is to test play the map. E.g. you run those paths, and look if they work well "enough" or if the path should be changed to improve the connectivity or flow. As you will have noted I added many ramps to give the player some height variation. Another thing I do is start off in one area, and try to create interesting consistent paths leading away from that area. I don't plan out the complete map pathing in one go. This way the map grows "organically" - play testing. This also bit me in the butt in AEglow, where I simply have no idea how to create a map out of it.

Tip: Oh... everyone "bump" into the RL2 arena gate on the wall .

[AEon]

Continuing to add protruding rock to the more boring corridor areas, plus some plants. Here between RG and Quad:

• 

[sock]

was there a specific reason why you func_grouped the vines on simple patch meshes?

I func_group everything in my maps so I can select/hide blocks of stuff quickly. Your map is looking good, but I would suggest you try and scale down the plants and add more leaf variety instead. Plants placed together in clumps looks more natural than spread out mega leaf stuff. Also try and mix the green with the brown, put the dead/brown leaves underneath the lush green leaves. I assumed you tried the crazy bright yellow/green leaves?

[Pat Howard]

I actually kind of liked the giant leaves. It gave the jungle a kind of "prehistoric" feel.

[Quack]

The ceiling openings allow direct sunlight to fill the interior walkways. I think it would look interesting if you changed the lighting of the interior space to a dim green, thus defining contrast against the brightness of the skybox and two outdoor courtyards. A few thoughts… For the interior walkways and shaded overlooks, take all the ceiling openings (windows) you have now, and place some glass for each window (using lightfilter, alphashadow) to create depth of colored shadows. If you take your glass and overlay with some moss, green or dirty looking material, you should be able to decrease the intensity of the sunlight creating smooth greenish/greyish colors on the floor/wall. If you use this lighting technique with the vines and foliage you already have, you should be able to create interesting visual transitions in the hallways. To take it a step further you could “break” the windows, and allow some direct sunlight to illuminate certain areas. You could also place a broken glass decal or some debris on floor under the window. Other possibilities might include placing blood splatter on a window, blocking part of the sunlight, leaving a dark red shadow with dim illumination. Maybe considers using something like that near the two ceiling windows near RA. You could do something similar with the viewing windows in the quad room. I think lightfilter would be the best way to use natural sunlight to create dimmer interior space with a slight green/grey color.

[AEon]

Quack,
I like the idea of using glass in the ceilings to "project" (if I understood that correctly) skybox sun light through decals onto floors. Ironically my Quake IV version of this map had glass in all the ceilings, plus broken glass decals, might even have been broken glass on the floors.

Does anyone know how a glass/decal shader would have to look like to make this possible? (i.e. shader that color filters a light source)

Note: Some of the areas in the ceiling will stay open on purpose, see the smudges on the floor, where plants broke through the floor. But closing off the other ceiling areas with glass would make it plausible way there are only smudges in certain areas and not in others. One might even add subtle "god rays" from the ceiling glass, where broken.

Nifty idea, hope someone knows how to create a shader for this.

[Hipshot]

I would say:

1: Glass shader with alpha shadow and filter
2: Decal shader under with its own alpha shadow
3: subtle point light to bounce the light a bit better below, depends on the results w/o.
4: Increased lightmapscale on the floor below, so you can see the shadow contour from your window decals and glass detail better,

[AEon]

This is my pretty old glass shader:

Code: Select all

textures/aedm7/glass
{
	// Roughrider's glass shader - Adapted by AEon (from AEsafe)
	qer_editorimage textures/aedm7/dsiglass.tga
	qer_trans 0.5
	//q3map_backsplash 0 0		// Avoid point source lighting on face
	q3map_surfacelight 100		// AEon - Windows emit light, was 200
	//q3map_lightsubdivide 32	// Finer subdivision
	surfaceparm nolightmap
	//surfaceparm nonsolid		// Glass is solid?!
	//surfaceparm nomarks		// Weapons leave marks at present
	surfaceparm trans
	// cull disable				// Turn on culling for 2-sided glass!
	{
		map textures/aedm7/dsitinfx.tga
		blendfunc blend
		//rgbGen identity
		tcGen environment
		alphagen const 0.5		// .25 Defines window transparency was .4 (.35 = more transparent)
	}
}

And here one of the decal stains by Tabun:

Code: Select all

textures/aedm7/tab_decal_stain_a
{
   noPicMip
   polygonOffset
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm nomarks
   {
      map textures/aedm7/tab_decal_stain_a.tga
      blendFunc GL_ZERO GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_COLOR
   }
}

I'll try surfaceparm alphashadow on the stain. But I have another problem fist, when placing decals of this type (code) on glass, everything works well enough *until* you place the skybox behind the decal, the decal is not drawn.

This is my skybox code... can this be fixed?

Code: Select all

textures/aedm7/skybox
{
	qer_editorimage textures/aedm7/skybox1.tga
	q3map_globaltexture
	q3map_sunExt 4 3 3 90 240 80 3 32		// Adds deviance and samples, less stadium 16 -> 32 (pinkish)
	q3map_lightmapFilterRadius 0 8		// <Self> <Other> (Placement: After sunExt before skylight!)
	q3map_skylight 100 6				// Amount iterations (Replaces subdivide & surfacelight), less stadium 3 -> 6

	surfaceparm sky
	surfaceparm noimpact
	surfaceparm nolightmap
	surfaceparm nodlight
	nopicmip						// New: HipShot Skies (ignore r_picmip, always hires!)
	nomipmaps						// New: Manual

	skyparms env/aedm7/forest - -
}

[Hipshot]

Try a regular blend on the decal, what does tabuns blendfunc do anyway? Is it something that works with fog?
My decals works with the sky...