apple's earnings...

[bitWISE]

And as a result...

http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/09/aapl-pass ... valuation/

[Eraser]

It's a bad situation. I hope Microsoft, Samsung, Acer, Amazon, Dell, HP, Intel, Motorola, Nintendo, Sony, Asus, IBM, Lenovo, and Apple can figure out a solution.

For once I agree with bkb on an Apple related thing.
The Foxconn-Apple bashing has been pretty intense, but Apple are certainly not the only one to make use of Foxconn's services while the reputation of those other companies remains largely unscathed.

[Tsakali]

oh snap

Apple Manufacturer Foxconn Gives Workers Pay Raise
Reacting to intense criticism of its labor practices, Foxconn has decided to raise the pay of its junior level employees by 16-25%.

http://techland.time.com/2012/02/17/app ... pay-raise/

[obsidian]

Damn... 25% raise, who wouldn't like that (besides Goof).

[GONNAFISTYA]

Wow...so they make 20 bucks a day now?

[seremtan]

that will make the swollen legs, insane hours, and breathing in of carcinogens SO worth it

[Tsakali]

not to mention that since they live, work, eat and shit in some form of bio-dome, I'm sure whatever raise they got will be compensated by raising prices of living there...food, goods, etc.

[Big Kahuna Burger]

I wonder if the guy who made my Xbox still wants to kill himself now

[EtUL]

i fucking live work and eat in a bio dome except here we don't give a fuck about bio and more about guns

i mean, i don't even live in the sticks and even i went to shoot guns and ride motorcycles "for fun" sunday

where we went they all work for whatever big conglomerate "nearby" they can, live off farm subsidies or are pill head leeches trying to find their next person to get cash from. and this is america. We just pretend that life is different in the states.

i met my buddies grandpa for the first time and he told the story of some 30sum odd year old trying to fuck him (who he refused because she was still a fertile age) who came to his double wide in the sticks for the first time and said to him "Oh....this would be a great place for us to raise my kids"

He's 78. Still banging the maid and getting head from other abused pill junkies tho. God bless america and pass the ammunition.

[shaft]

wat

[Eraser]

You're interpreting my statement in a way that's diametrically opposite of what my intention was, and I'm kind of surprised you don't get it.

I'm not saying Apple should get away with it or shouldn't be held accountable, I'm saying that it's all too easy to lose sight of the likes of Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo because everyone's too busy blaming Apple. Trust me, when Apple has forced some minor improvements in the situation at Foxconn (like the recent increase in wages) people will forget about it again. From that point onward, Foxconn will ring the "wasn't that the Apple thing?" bell with a lot of people while no one thinks of Microsoft anymore.

[obsidian]

Nightline takes an inside look at Foxconn.





While the conditions are pretty deplorable by Western standards, I think Foxconn's working conditions are by far higher than the national Chinese average. There are also huge cultural differences in how Foxconn and Western societies operate. The dorms for example, are not something you would normally see anywhere else in the world, but because of China's uniquely large population and massive numbers of migrant workers. China has seen huge fluctuations of peasants migrating from rural areas to urban ones and living space is both expensive and hard to find. Entire cities have sprung up in under a decade, formed by shifting populations. I think that's why Foxconn has an entire campus facility, it's just not feasible in China to have that large of a workforce commuting to work.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Foxconn is an ideal place to work, quite the contrary. I think Foxconn has all the more responsibility to ensure that their workforce is cared for, because the challenges that China faces as a growing industrialization means that as an employer, they are all the more an integral part of their employee's lives both on the job and off. These are growing pains caused by industrialization of the country as a whole, not just at Foxconn. It's just that Foxconn's many high-profile Western partners exposes them under a very large magnifying glass. The same level of exposure has to occur throughout China and the challenges faced by the entire country.

[Tsakali]

I agree with the black one

[Tsakali]

grow up... you'd do the same if you were in their shoes.

[Tsakali]

why? because not everyone is dreaming of unicorns and awaiting the second coming?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but completely ignoring reality doesn't make you look very bright.

your current outlook is one of an uneducated republican, at a redneck BBQ party bitching about the man while you're waiting for your burger which is surely to end up burned on the outside and bloody on the inside, cause you're too retarded to mind things like proper cooking.

[Tsakali]

nope, wrong again. your logic is simplistic, which notoriously leaves one with a very misdirected viewpoint.

Let me ask you, do you even understand why companies like Foxconn exist, or do you simply think that 'the man' is evil and that's what 'the man' does?

[Tsakali]

nope wrong again.... it's clearly not possible to have a conversation with you... you're just concentrating at supporting your own opinion, than anything else. Another trait of an uneducated republican at a redneck party.

[Tsakali]

I just don't appreciate your 'holier than thou' stance you're taking on this issue... and you know what, it wouldn't take me long to prove that you are also doing exactly what Apple does, in your daily life, one way or another.
I listen to morons like you almost on a daily basis.

[Tsakali]

understanding what's going on, doesn't mean accepting... and ffs read some replies in this thread. US exploitation is the best a chinaman can hope for right now.

As I said before on another similar topic, this is just the odd time during globalization. and I think I said something like " eventually, we'll all be watching x-factor, or there wont be an x-factor at all."

meaning, it will all balance out...and the china man is more likely looking forward to that. So yeah, there is no way to have your unicorns AND eat them too. what?

[Tsakali]

uhm, no... there will still be the smart rich peeps and the dumb poor peeps...just on a global scale.
you heard it here first...you're welcome.

[obsidian]

I don't see the point of this discussion.

There's certainly nothing wrong with holding ourselves to the highest moral standards in order to identify problems and evoke change. The eutopiatic belief of morality may be unobtainable, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it as a model to reach for. On the flip side, we should also keep ourselves grounded in the real-world so that we can find applicable solutions to push towards our higher standards. To lack one or the other means to remain as we are and either finger-point at problems or dream of solutions, but never making the leap between the two.

The reality is, we live in a global economy and the old belief that you can be competitive by shipping manufacturing jobs back locally isn't going to work. Manufacturing on the scale of global demands requires global cooperation. Simply shipping iPad manufacturing jobs back locally will drive up manufacturing costs, which will drive up product costs, which will result in lower sales, which will result in less innovation and possibly businesses closing down. This is evident in how closely tied the Chinese and U.S. economies are, if either goes bust, you'll see huge economic repercussions in the other, it's a symbiotic relationship.

However, just because we depend on Chinese manufacturing doesn't mean we should be okay with exploiting them to line our pockets. In addition to the moral issues, much of the success that we need requires us to ensure that we help to build a healthy Chinese middle class, one with which will continue to buy products and services that we sell. By denying them fair wage and rights we hurt our own economy. What you see in both regions - financial instability in the West, and cultural/industrialization/worker's rights issues in the East - are challenges that we face as we transition to a global economy. There's no stopping it, all we can do is ensure that both sides challenge each other to make changes responsibly to ensure mutual growth and benefits.

[obsidian]

uhm, no... there will still be the smart rich peeps and the dumb poor peeps...just on a global scale.
you heard it here first...you're welcome.

WTF... What you're saying is that you believe that the "smart" West will grow richer by exploiting "dumb" people in the East?

There are plenty of stupid rich people and plenty of smart poor people. You can point at virtually any fat slob of a CEO who cashes in every time he sinks the company he represents, and virtually any mass of innovators out there without the capital to fund their ideas without the sweaty hand of corporations. It's why there's a disappearing middle class here in the Western world, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, it has little to do with intelligence or force of will. The concept of the American Dream, of working hard and thinking big is dead, killed by corporate monopolies.

[Tsakali]

i was simplifying it for the audience... just round it out to rich and poor peeps.

[Tsakali]

WTF... What you're saying is that you believe that the "smart" West will grow richer by exploiting "dumb" people in the East?

that's not what I said. I'm saying that there will always be the imbalance between classes...but the imbalance between participating countries will converge...simply into classes.

[GONNAFISTYA]

that's not what I said. I'm saying that there will always be the imbalance between classes...but the imbalance between participating countries will converge...simply into classes.

Ah....so what you're saying is that, like the movie Demolition Man, in the future only rich people will be able to eat at Taco Bell?