fuck Israel...

[CZghost]

Looks like some serious news blog.

[Captain]

This is only utopia. War now makes big money since soldiers are well paid from their missions, that way the war became a bussiness, so when a bloody conflict appears somewhere, US army and members of NATO immediately jump here fighting their money off. It's not important where the bloody conflict appears, these guys will always turn the conflict into a war and no matter, who has begun, it will never end untill any side of conflict will be blowed out. It's a sad example of imperialistic thinking of governments and bussinessmans. You do not have to look for bussiness, it's everywhere.

[mrd]

Damn that looks fuckin' tasty

[dONKEY]

@losCHUNK,
Yes in a perfect world the United Nations would step in, the Palestinian people would reject terrorism and Israel would return the occupied territories.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. I can't think of a case were a nation state was formed without bloodshed.
The major difference between the creation of Israel and that of India, and it's subsequent partition, is that before 1948, Israel did not exist. There never was a Jewish state. The only reference to it is in a book of desert fairy stories.
Not that I support violence and terrorism from either side, but just as Israel claim a right to self defense, Hamas would claim the right to resist. Their argument that their actions are no different to George Washington or Oliver Cromwell are to a very large degree valid.
One only has to look at the disproportionate casualty figures. Have you watched this video?
http://youtu.be/oyqWYz8oeoY
The war crimes being committed under the pretext of self defense are an affront to humanity.
With the Egyptian government now safely back as a secular, US friendly dictatorship, it really isn't surprising that they have closed their borders. Hamas oppose the Syrian regime and support the opposition, as does, at least tacitly, the west.
On a side note, seeing as I live next door to Malaysia, I can tell you, the general feeling here is the current tragedies to befall MAS are seen as part of a grand US conspiracy. Malaysia does not recognize Israel, and supports China's claims in the South China Sea. Every Malaysian I talk to thinks after Libya and Syria, they are next on the US hit list of countries to destabilise.

[Captain]

Egypt has also stopped Iran's supply of medicine, food, and water to Palestine.

[losCHUNK]

But Palestine never existed either, neither did Jordan or Iran is the point I was getting at. There may not have been a Jewish state but there was a Jewish population that was given land where anyone within it could vote for their leaders, Jewish or Muslim. Israel has just a much right to exist as any of those countries, or Pakistan. Saying that nations are born out of bloodshed is just condoning violence I think, Palestine would have had a nation if it, along with its neighbours never decided to attack Israel. In regards to Egypt, its not surprising that they have closed borders with gaza because of Hamas and their actions when under rule of Morsi, in that they were looking to destabilise the Egyptian government through terror activities and subversion, crimes that Morsi will face in court soon.

Egypt wasnt destabilised by USA either, Morsi was a cunt, neither was Libya, Libya is only able to govern itself however it wishes now because of intervention from the west. Something that the west is constantly criticised for.

[dONKEY]

Libya is able to govern itself how it wants?
What rubbish, it has descended into tribal warfare.
Be under no illusion, Gaddafi was NOT a mad dog. Sure he was a despot, but an enlightened one. The system of government was democratic, and often over ruled its leader. There was a congress, and a system of local councils.
The standard of living in Libya exceeded that of most western nations and Gaddafi worked as one of the few positive forces within the African continent. Setting up a national housing programme in Uganda for example.
Before Gaddafi, women had no access to education or civil rights. Under his rule half the the students attending university were woman. One of his first laws in 1970 gave equal rights to women.
Proceeds from oil flowed into the citizen's bank. The people enjoyed low cost housing, free universal health care and cheap fuel.
The Great Man-Made River Project would have afforded an almost limitless supply of free fresh water to all Libyans.
All of that is gone. On the face of it, it was the support of democracy over despotism. That is quite simply a pile of bullshit. Gaddafi started selling oil to China and was at a point where the world's most precious resource, water, was about to become freely available.

[Eraser]

The only way this is ever going to be resolved is if both parties forget the past. No more claims to whose land it rightfully is, just stay where you are now and stop messing with your neighbors.

[Captain]

Libya is able to govern itself how it wants?
What rubbish, it has descended into tribal warfare.
Be under no illusion, Gaddafi was NOT a mad dog. Sure he was a despot, but an enlightened one. The system of government was democratic, and often over ruled its leader. There was a congress, and a system of local councils.
The standard of living in Libya exceeded that of most western nations and Gaddafi worked as one of the few positive forces within the African continent. Setting up a national housing programme in Uganda for example.
Before Gaddafi, women had no access to education or civil rights. Under his rule half the the students attending university were woman. One of his first laws in 1970 gave equal rights to women.
Proceeds from oil flowed into the citizen's bank. The people enjoyed low cost housing, free universal health care and cheap fuel.
The Great Man-Made River Project would have afforded an almost limitless supply of free fresh water to all Libyans.
All of that is gone. On the face of it, it was the support of democracy over despotism. That is quite simply a pile of bullshit. Gaddafi started selling oil to China and was at a point where the world's most precious resource, water, was about to become freely available.

You're far more patient than I am

Hilarious how many morons think "OH WE FREED LIBYA EVERYONE IS HAPPY AND WAVING AMERICA FLAGS NOW"

[losCHUNK]

Libya is able to govern itself how it wants?
What rubbish, it has descended into tribal warfare.
Be under no illusion, Gaddafi was NOT a mad dog. Sure he was a despot, but an enlightened one. The system of government was democratic, and often over ruled its leader. There was a congress, and a system of local councils.
The standard of living in Libya exceeded that of most western nations and Gaddafi worked as one of the few positive forces within the African continent. Setting up a national housing programme in Uganda for example.
Before Gaddafi, women had no access to education or civil rights. Under his rule half the the students attending university were woman. One of his first laws in 1970 gave equal rights to women.
Proceeds from oil flowed into the citizen's bank. The people enjoyed low cost housing, free universal health care and cheap fuel.
The Great Man-Made River Project would have afforded an almost limitless supply of free fresh water to all Libyans.
All of that is gone. On the face of it, it was the support of democracy over despotism. That is quite simply a pile of bullshit. Gaddafi started selling oil to China and was at a point where the world's most precious resource, water, was about to become freely available.

And for all those years he was left to run his country how he wanted, wether he supported terrorist activity or not, right up until the point where he started oppressing his country with tanks and planes. Something that even Russia drew objection to. The West sent peace envoys, the past was almost forgetton, Blair even shook his hand even after what happened with Lockerbie, something that I strongly disagreed with and felt he should be dragged up on crimes.

We didn't free Libya, regardless of how the West felt about the situation, Libya freed themselves and the west just evened the tables.

[CZghost]

Well, this is what I say We just feed these bucks by our money. When it will stop? After a revolution will start? After something goes wrong and WWIII will start?

[seremtan]

The standard of living in Libya exceeded that of most western nations

i agree with you that Libya got fucked by short-sighted and dubiously-motivated Western intervention, but there's no need to overstate your case

[losCHUNK]

Well, infighting distabalised the country more than we could ever do, everyone was jockeying for position of control including his sons. Under the former King Libya was making massive improvements in education, they had a charter that guaranteed equal rights for all people that was promptly destroyed. Oil production went from 4 million barrels to just over 1 after nationalising the market. Frequent public hangings for poeple that opposed him, massacres, human rights infringements up until the 90s. Someone that was never elected and legitimacy stems from nothing. Not to mention his lavish spending and lifestyle with a tight control over the media in a country which was going backwards that must have got under the nose of many Libyans skins before he started oppressing with tanks instead of fear.

Also the intervention by the security council went completely un-opposed by the rest of the world. Being supported by the likes of Lebannon, Jordan, UAE etc...

[dONKEY]

History, is all about the telling.
News and current affairs is, these days, all about the agenda.
To get back to Israel, western media will tell you Hamas kidnapped and murdered four kids, and triggered the current conflict by firing rockets into Israeli territory. It won't tell you there is compelling evidence that the kids died in a car crash, and security forces knew the whereabouts of the bodies for four days. It won't tell you about the air strikes on Gaza and the killing of a Palestinian by Israeli security forces, that triggered the Hamas rocket firing.
Israeli violence, is disproportionate, illegal and a crime against humanity.
Fox, CNN, BBC spin lies and bias to push the agenda.

[Eraser]

Every day I see complete city blocks in Gaza being bombed to rubble. Where are the images of the "devastation" caused by Hamas' rockets ?

[losCHUNK]

History, is all about the telling.
News and current affairs is, these days, all about the agenda.
To get back to Israel, western media will tell you Hamas kidnapped and murdered four kids, and triggered the current conflict by firing rockets into Israeli territory. It won't tell you there is compelling evidence that the kids died in a car crash, and security forces knew the whereabouts of the bodies for four days. It won't tell you about the air strikes on Gaza and the killing of a Palestinian by Israeli security forces, that triggered the Hamas rocket firing.
Israeli violence, is disproportionate, illegal and a crime against humanity.
Fox, CNN, BBC spin lies and bias to push the agenda.

I know about this, swings n roundabouts n all that, there's plenty for / against. I've said all along the 1st thing Palestine need to do is get rid of Hamas and renounce violence. Don't give the Israeli's an excuse to retort, as I said the mandate of Hamas is genocide, they are at war with Israel which gives them the constant 'excuse' to retaliate.

You can't condone / defend Gaddaffi whilst killing civilians but condemn Israel for doing the same either, in simplistic terms. The difference being internal population VS outside threats obviously.

Every day I see complete city blocks in Gaza being bombed to rubble. Where are the images of the "devastation" caused by Hamas' rockets ?

Oh so now we're only counting the ones that cause death and destruction, not the ones that are intended to.

If you're doubting that they're firing the rockets then everyone, including Hamas, Iran, UN and Israel are confirming the attacks. The frequency is up for debate cos I can't be arsed to fact check 2500 rockets.

^ Sorry for the sarcasm it was a response to Geoff.

[CZghost]

In other words, fuck everyone. Every nation lies, however not for keep the secret, but for money. We can only speculate, every media, even the eastern ones will keep the truth in secret. Why? 'Cause governments give them big money to fuck up and tell us these shits.

[losCHUNK]

Pretty much, to a degree obviously and people are forced to read between the lines. Everyone will have some bias, there's some journos that keep a good balance but on the whole you're better off comparing and contrasting things yourself if it means that much to you.

[dONKEY]

What nonsense. You are aware that Hamas have only been in power for less than 10% of the time the conflict has been going on for? Hamas is the last resort of a desperate people, subjected to decades of misery. Maybe difficult to understand for us privileged first world citizens, but any human being with empathy, I think, could see how they arrived at that point. If I lived in Gaza, I'd be pointing as many home made rockets at Israel as I damn well could.

[losCHUNK]

And all the while they have used violence to achieve their gains, right from their initial attack on Israel. This is why I said they need to renounce violence, since those wars Israel has been giving back land that was taken. This is why I said they need to renounce violence towards Israel before progress can be made, with the 1st step of removing Hamas (to remove that genocidal feeling) and acknowledging their sovereignty. Infact when Israel released Gaza to Hamas shit got worse. You can't argue that Israel hasn't been under attack since Palestine (amoungst others) declared war on them back when the mandate was made.

Most of the other countries have managed to regain their land through peaceful means. Granted, not all, but they all had to make compromises which is something Palestine have never been willing to do.

[scared?]

It's high time some one bans incoherent red font guy...I think we have all had enough of his moronics... K thx...

[losCHUNK]

If we were in the market of banning morons we'd all be in the shit

[obsidian]

Saying that Palestine needs to renounce violence and Hamas right now is akin to an American G.I. in the jungles of Vietnam while the U.S. is on the retreat standing up and saying, "Fuck this, Flower Power, man!" and walking through the jungle to a Viet Cong encampment with a bouquet of flowers.

[losCHUNK]

That GI would be blowing someone elses back garden up though, from America, after attacking and threatening to bring genocide to the whole of Vietnam and not quitting the war until this goal is achieved.

By removing the 'excuse' for Israel to attack they will have no choice but to make them look like the bullies, they would have no reason to attack Palestine, to maintain the blockades etc. America would have no choice but to question their support of Israel with the inernational community taking note if Israel carried on.

[obsidian]

In a perfect world perhaps. Israel has already shown that they don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. The lines on the map were drawn, and yet they continued with illegal settlements. The international community condemned the bombing of civilians, Israel continues to kill children. You think that if Palestine put down all their guns and rockets and slings and rocks that Israel would stop their exploitation and oppression? Israel isn't interested in peace, they already have a continuous crushing hold on Palestine and they're going to continue to choke it until it's dead. Your belief in anything else is incredibly naive.