RiffRaff wrote:
Unless you're doing a clear 180 on your previous stance, I think I understand your point clearly. You think the force was excessive because not EVERY cop in America or the World is put in a threatening situation. My point is ANY cop never knows what could happen. They don't know that a simple traffic stop or domestic house call could end in their injury or death. It happens. Is that not what you're saying?
PS.. Then why did you make such a general, presumptuous statement?
edit: spelling error
Man, once again, what make you think that every cop have to deal with those people?
Is what I said. Emphasis every. What I mean is that I highely doubt it that a cop in [insert peacefull town] where nothing at all happens has to deal with those situations. Therefor lacking that experience of dangerous situation and whatever, how could have misjudged this situation wrong.
We know nothing about this video, but somehow you judge their action are ok, because cops all over the world are getting killed and shot at and violentely abused in the ass. [/u]
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
if a cop lives in a decent sized city (city, not town), of course they deal with people like that daily.
Half my friends are cops in Brussels. Ofcourse they deal with idiots, but really not on a daily basis. Maybe that's different in the US ofcourse.
Wow, HALF your friends are cops?
Shit kid..you should go for a ride with a cop in downtown Detroit for a day. You'd wet your pants, shit yourself, and then beg for the cop to taser anyone who looked at you funny for fear of being killed, fucked, beaten, or all of the above...
Shit kid..you should go for a ride with a cop in downtown Detroit for a day. You'd wet your pants, shit yourself, and then beg for the cop to taser anyone who looked at you funny for fear of being killed, fucked, beaten, or all of the above...
That's the difference between you and me, I don't life in America. And exuse me if my I make gramatical errors on the count that I'm not english.
Also do you really think I'm so ignorant that I don't know there are cops in America who have hard times. I've read about all those fucked up neighbourhoods, I'm just saying not every cop has to deal with em.
Btw, have you already been on a ride with a Detroit cop? Cuz I think you'll do the same, kid.
Last edited by MaCaBr3 on Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
Shit kid..you should go for a ride with a cop in downtown Detroit for a day. You'd wet your pants, shit yourself, and then beg for the cop to taser anyone who looked at you funny for fear of being killed, fucked, beaten, or all of the above...
That's the difference between you and me, I don't life in America. And exuse me if my I make gramatical errors on the count that I'm not english.
Whatever. LOL man. It seems clear to me that someone who understands the law and respects authority is someone who is more ample to obey the laws and abide civily. Do some research on inner-city problems with relations to gangs and tell me those individuals respect the law, their fellow citizens and civil structure. Where is your "Happy Place" cause it's blinding you to reality.
Jesus christ fuck off with your happy place and dreamworld bullshit. What your saying with your "respect to autority" statement is that anyobody who dissagrees or disrespects authoriy is anarchist. Like you never have dissrespected or dissagreed ever in your life with authority. Your boss is authority too, let's see how you work is out when you have cuntfaced boss.
IMHO, from your statements, I think you live in a dreamworld so I'll leave it at that. Not saying that at all. You can have dissagreements with authority and policy but there's a proper way to handle them. If a cop is telling you to get the f*ck out of the car, you get out of the car and deal with the situation later. I've had cuntfaced bosses and I either dealt with their crap appropriately or quit but to think I could disrespect their authority blatantly should result in my firing or corrective action of some type, IMHO. That's why they're the boss.
RiffRaff wrote:
Cops have been shot, stabbed, beat-up all over america and I'm sure other places in the world. Not every day mind you but why should they take a chance with someone? If a cop could tell who was dangerous and who wasn't at a glance, their jobs would be a lot easier.
I clearly don't understand how someone could take the side of this lady, clearly in the wrong, over the cop who gave her ample opportunities to obey his commands but she chose to escalate the situation.
Still, think about it. Some bitch in her car won't put down the cell-phone. OH NOES THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAT GUYS I'D BETTER PULL OUT THE TAZER :icon19:
Seriously. Cops are supposed to be more responsible than that. Just because they have to put up with bullshit alot doesn't give a cop an excuse to just jump the gun over the smallest of problems.
MaCaBr3 wrote: I'm just saying not every cop has to deal with em.
As an example, you tell me that this cop, investigating a possible disabled vehicle, didn't have to deal with tough situations because he patrolled hick-town, no-where Oklahoma roads.
RiffRaff wrote:
Cops have been shot, stabbed, beat-up all over america and I'm sure other places in the world. Not every day mind you but why should they take a chance with someone? If a cop could tell who was dangerous and who wasn't at a glance, their jobs would be a lot easier.
I clearly don't understand how someone could take the side of this lady, clearly in the wrong, over the cop who gave her ample opportunities to obey his commands but she chose to escalate the situation.
Still, think about it. Some bitch in her car won't put down the cell-phone. OH NOES THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAT GUYS I'D BETTER PULL OUT THE TAZER :icon19:
Seriously. Cops are supposed to be more responsible than that. Just because they have to put up with bullshit alot doesn't give a cop an excuse to just jump the gun over the smallest of problems.
All I'm saying is that she put herself in that situation by disobeying a police officers command to exit the vehicle. If she had done that, then all this would be a moot point.
The cop told her what he was going to do and did it after numerous warnings. He got her out of the vehicle and handcuffed without harm to himself or his partner which is his right. He shouldn't be forced to accept any type of injury just because she's a lady who doesn't want to obey the law or rule.
RiffRaff wrote:
IMHO, from your statements, I think you live in a dreamworld so I'll leave it at that. Not saying that at all. You can have dissagreements with authority and policy but there's a proper way to handle them. If a cop is telling you to get the f*ck out of the car, you get out of the car and deal with the situation later. I've had cuntfaced bosses and I either dealt with their crap appropriately or quit but to think I could disrespect their authority blatantly should result in my firing or corrective action of some type, IMHO. That's why they're the boss.
Ofcourse, what your say is right, but it was just my opinion that your statement about respect to authority is a bit radical.
Also, you should really read up on everything I said. Because you're really not giving up the dreamworld idea.
I said that not every cop has to deal with those situations where you clearely want to prove me wrong. Some districs are highly more dangerous than others, I completely agree. But then again again in other districs, towns cities whatever cops must be bored to shit with their daily routine where nothing hardely happens.
RiffRaff wrote:
You NEVER know when you'll come up against a bad situation. I merely did an internet search and found a random killing.
And don't know who you have to prove me that cops are getting killed. I know cops get killed, but more than often in America then in Europe. And I'm from Europe, Belgium to be precise and cops rarely get killed here and if they are, it's all over the news.
Bottom line - regardless of the situation, regardless of the provocation, people will be there to shout "excessive force!"
Let's flip it around, for the sake of the argument, and say it was a male driver and a female cop. Male driver is getting aggressive and won't put down the cell phone. Should the female cop be 'nice' and just figure out something else, other than using her taser, to solve
the problem. Should she wait for him to get out, thereby putting the HIM in charge of the situation instead of herself?
I am pretty sure if the situation were reversed sexually, all of you anti-cop types would be singing a different tune.
It's easy for people to hate cops, and in some cases they might have some pretty valid reasons (again, there are crooked SOB cops, no doubt...) And I do agree partially with what GKY said - many times once they don the badge, it becomes a "them against us" mentality - I've known people who fell into that line of thinking once they got their badge. All of the sudden there was this kind of wall they put up - everyone else was somehow on the other side of it.
However, I still contend (regardless of what cops in Belgium deal with) that the job puts a unique set of stresses on people, and puts them in situations where a split second decision can literally mean life or death. Even if those situations are only 1-2% of the ones they make in a year, they are still have to make them much more frequently than those of us with 'normal' jobs (even me as a teacher...hehe). I would guess that, under those conditions, they are going to get better at reading situations (i.e. predicting when a confrontation needs to be resolved and how to do it) and they are going to be less apt to allow such situations to develop - which often times will result in what looks like excessive force - since they may see something that is likely to develop before it does and act accordingly.
The guy who taught me self-defense (can't really call it martial arts, since it is just a mix of a bunch of shit) always pointed out that you know when a confrontation is going to get physical before a punch is ever thrown. So, when it goes past that point, it is better to hit first, hit hard, and then get the fuck out. I'm not saying that a cop should follow that motto, but the truth is they will face situations where they do need to 'hit first and hit hard' in a sense (taser) before things get really ugly.
Pooinyourmouth_needmerge wrote:I missed the part where this turned into a "let's all hate america" thread.
You should see what happens in mexico if you refuse to cooperate the first time. Or better yet try south africa.
No no...remember, for the sake of convenience we assume that bad things don't happen outside of America. The other countries have rivers of chocolate where it rains candy and the kids run around playing with gumdrop smiles...
I totally agree with you tnf, I'm not cop hater, my first reaction was that I might have been exessive but I also said, that I wasn't there to judge the situation. If the girl was kicking or resisiting arrest violentely when she was in the car (wich we can't see), it's normal he used his taser to bring her down fast to avoid any more trouble from the subject.
Last edited by MaCaBr3 on Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pooinyourmouth_needmerge wrote:I missed the part where this turned into a "let's all hate america" thread.
You should see what happens in mexico if you refuse to cooperate the first time. Or better yet try south africa.
No no...remember, for the sake of convenience we assume that bad things don't happen outside of America. The other countries have rivers of chocolate where it rains candy and the kids run around playing with gumdrop smiles...
or something like that.
It was Saturn who didn't like America, this thread hardely became a let's hate America thread because of that imho.
MaCaBr3 wrote: Ofcourse, what your say is right, but it was just my opinion that your statement about respect to authority is a bit radical.
Also, you should really read up on everything I said. Because you're really not giving up the dreamworld idea.
I said that not every cop has to deal with those situations where you clearely want to prove me wrong. Some districs are highly more dangerous than others, I completely agree. But then again again in other districs, towns cities whatever cops must be bored to shit with their daily routine where nothing hardely happens.
I understand you have your opinion and I have mine. At this point we could leave it at that.
My example was to show you that even a cop patrolling southern Oklahoma, where he was probably bored shitless driving up and down roads most of the time, died because he stopped to check out a "disabled" vehicle. My point is he didn't know and no cop ever knows what a situation could turn into. 99% it could be nothing but that 1 time, it could be life threatening so why take that chance?
This whole entire thing could have been avoided if this lady would've displayed a reasonable amount of common sense. Everyone knows that an officer of the law carries several items with them to uphold the law. Those items being a gun, club of some sort, possibly a tazer and maybe some sort of pepper spray. Everyone knows that when an officer of the law gives you a command you are suppose to obey, for their safety and your own. Everyone also knows that when you don't obey an officer's command there is going to be consequences. That consequence is most likely going to be what the officer is trained (key word trained) to do. Officers put their lives on the line every day and are trained to protect themselves, as well as the other people around them. Officers aren't trained to scrutinize every single situation and ponder over what may or may not be the right thing to do. They rely on their training to act quickly and resolve situations before they have a chance to escalate. If officers had to develop their own opinion of how to handle every individual situation before they reacted, they'd end up dead or accused of some sort of prejudice. Officers are trained so that their reactions are fair and almost second nature.
For anyone to feel sorry for this lady is just plain stupid. People who condemn his actions are definitely ignorant to what goes into being a police officer. She got the same thing a man would get for not cooperating because she can hear, follow directions and pull a trigger just like anyone else. Put yourself in his shoes, if you can. You've got a person who's willfully disobeying a law enforcement officer. Why?(A sane person usually does what they're told.) Is she stalling, looking for an opportunity to grab a weapon? Is she a convicted felon hoping for the chance to run? Does she have something on her that would harm you, like a knife or an infected needle? Why would you lean into a car and physically remove her? You could end up seriously injuring her or yourself. That tazer doesn't kill (not even people with heart conditions or pacemakers) and it only shocks in bursts which are a lot less painful than pepper spray. You can only hope that this idiot is not cooperating because she's temporarily insane and has no ulterior motives, but in reality you just don't know.
That lady received the typical (trained) response to resisting arrest. The action and outcome was text book perfect. She resisted, she was subdued, she was restrained and no one was hurt. Maybe next time she'll think twice and comply when an officer of the law makes a few simple requests. Maybe she'll learn that being pulled over is not some kind of joke and laws are not in place to be obeyed at her convenience.
BTW, have you seen the entire version of that video? I can't find it. But from what I heard she was pulled for speeding and was immediately belligerent, telling the officer he was a racist for pulling her over. The reason she was tazed, was that she threw her cell phone at the officer on the other side of the car.
Last edited by YourGrandpa on Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.