So I bought a new shotgun...

[seremtan]

it's interesting that the largest % of fatal shootings are suicides. i'd be interested to know how that figure stacks up against other methods of suicide

truth is, people like doing things that are dangerous - even fatally so (like driving a car). the question is: should they have the right to do those things. my answer is yes. if freedom doesn't include the freedom to fuck yourself up through sheer boneheaded stupidity, then it's a pale shadow of itself

[Doombrain]

Or Switzerland for that matter. Isn't nearly every man required to own a gun there for the militia?

true, but they don't have this 'red neck' mentality of girls in bikinis firing uzis and tacking out weapons.

[Tormentius]

Or Switzerland for that matter. Isn't nearly every man required to own a gun there for the militia?

true, but they don't have this 'red neck' mentality of girls in bikinis firing uzis and tacking out weapons.

Exactly. That points to societal values and levels of violent or criminal behaviour being the primary issue rather than the mere availability of guns. Your home country of England is a good example. Gun crime dropped to a degree when they're banned but other forms of violent crime have increased, iirc. The other factor in England is that criminals are still readily able to obtain guns and do so since they aren't the type likely to say "gee, this is illegal I'd better not buy one". Guns being illegal doesn't influence whether someone who makes their living from illegal activities will buy one or not. Now that knife crime is on the rise your government has seriously considered banning knives with points. Jeebus, when does the line of thinking end? If they ban points on knives douchebags with homicidal leanings will just use clubs or pointy sticks, the same as people have done for tens of thousands of years. IMO its about changing the social environments that lead to criminal lifestyles in the first place rather than treating the symptoms. The example in this case was about England but the principle applies pretty much anywhere.

[Peenyuh]

it's interesting that the largest % of fatal shootings are suicides. i'd be interested to know how that figure stacks up against other methods of suicide

truth is, people like doing things that are dangerous - even fatally so (like driving a car). the question is: should they have the right to do those things. my answer is yes. if freedom doesn't include the freedom to fuck yourself up through sheer boneheaded stupidity, then it's a pale shadow of itself

Yes. Now put seremtan back on the line!

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Puff, isn't your argument blown out of the water by those countries with similar levels of gun ownership to the US but with much lower gun mortality? Like, errr, Canada?

Guns don't kill people. Freedom kills people.

(for values of Freedom which include tards like Gwamps and Peen-yuh being allowed to own guns)

Not really because it's not just about gun ownership per capita. Compare the specific laws in the USA and Canada (laws that allow one to carry concealed handguns for example USA (many states yes, Canada no) As well, most gun owners in Canada live in rural areas and they own rifles. There aren't nearly as many hand guns around, not nearly as many illegal arms available etc.

[YourGrandpa]

This thread is great. In one sentence these morons are calling me the idiot. But in the very next sentence they'll bang their heads against the wall defending the defenseless position of banning guns in America. Get a grip dipshits.

[YourGrandpa]

so, serious questions gramps: how many guns do you own now? do you use them all at a range? is that a hobby of yours?

i'm just curious

I have 8 in my possession. 5 I'll take to the range, 1 is my grandfather's old 22 rifle that doesn't fire and 2 are small pistols that belong to my father. Yes it has become a hobby of sorts. But I don't go hunting or use them to kill living things and with the exception of my carry, they stay locked up in a 2hr fire rated safe.

[menkent]

I could walk down to the end of my street right now and pick up a healthy .45 for under $300. - with no waiting period.

it's not our fault you live in a barrio. if you don't have a gun, you can't shoot anyone.

[Doombrain]

I have 8 in my possession. 5 I'll take to the range, 1 is my grandfather's old 22 rifle that doesn't fire and 2 are small pistols that belong to my father. Yes it has become a hobby of sorts. But I don't go hunting or use them to kill living things and with the exception of my carry, they stay locked up in a 2hr fire rated safe.

Don’t you ever worry they could be used against you and your family?
And I don’t want to hear “you can’t steal these blah blah” bullshit, if some one can take a modern sports car from a secure home taking guns from a locked box is nothing.

[EtUL]

That's a weak argument bucko. Someone breaks into his house and steals his guns to use them on his family?

Or some highly improbably scenario where the thief was in the process and ygp returns home to catch her in the act?

[Geebs]

This thread is great. In one sentence these morons are calling me the idiot. But in the very next sentence they'll bang their heads against the wall defending the defenseless position of banning guns in America. Get a grip dipshits.

But Gwamps, you ARE an idiot, armed or not. You're just more of a danger to yourself and your family this way.

Would be interesting to get figures on how many of the gun deaths puff quoted were associated with drug or alcohol use though.

[Doombrain]

That's a weak argument bucko. Someone breaks into his house and steals his guns to use them on his family?

Or some highly improbably scenario where the thief was in the process and ygp returns home to catch her in the act?

I bet it's never happened. Guns carry no risk what so ever. What was I thinking?

[Tormentius]

...There aren't nearly as many hand guns around, not nearly as many illegal arms available etc.

You really don't know much about the Canadian black market do you? Availability might not be "as" high as the US but just what do you think the weed you love so much gets traded for? Yeah, its guns from across the border and anyone in a major city can find them easily. That isn't from some anonymous stat I pasted from a gun control site, its information and experiences from a number of municipal and federal members of law enforcement.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

cool story bro

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Anyone catch how tormentius points out that illegal guns are being brought into Canada from the U.S.? Any idea why that is Tormentius? Jeez...

[plained]

there is no reasoning to the unreasonable

[Peenyuh]

there is no reasoning to the unreasonable

Yeah. It's the whole "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" thing.

[seremtan]

so, serious questions gramps: how many guns do you own now? do you use them all at a range? is that a hobby of yours?

i'm just curious

I have 8 in my possession. 5 I'll take to the range, 1 is my grandfather's old 22 rifle that doesn't fire and 2 are small pistols that belong to my father. Yes it has become a hobby of sorts. But I don't go hunting or use them to kill living things and with the exception of my carry, they stay locked up in a 2hr fire rated safe.

with the exception of my carry

you carry? routinely?

[Tormentius]

Anyone catch how tormentius points out that illegal guns are being brought into Canada from the U.S.? Any idea why that is Tormentius? Jeez...

Maybe because there is a cultural demand for them amongst gangs and people who make their living on illegal activities? Because wishing them away isn't going to change their availability in the US or Canada and, even if it somehow did, they would simply be smuggled in from South America or overseas? It might also have something to do with the same guys you buy your herb from making their money and taking their product from the same people who bring guns in and foster that criminal element. Guns are not going away so pull your head out and get used to the idea. Changing the culture which drives the gang and/or antisocial behaviours which lead to frequent violence is something that is actually workable though. Its about treating the disease rather than the symptom.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

lol

[Tormentius]

Brilliant retort

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Was I supposed to take that reply seriously?

Guns (hand guns and automatic weapons) are being smuggled from the U.S. where they are readily obtainable, to Canada where they are not. Your claim supported by piss-weak anecdotal evidence that "anyone in a major city can find them (guns) easily", is wrong. Although guns can be found, it's not easy and your focus on the whole gang gun aspect of this issue is sensational crap. Gun violence in Canada is more about people who know each other getting into arguments than it is that.

Also, what's the deal with your guns are going to be around so get used to it argument. Ontario and Quebec have very strict gun laws and Toronto is safer per capita than Saskatoon.

I can assure you that all the pot I purchase goes in a vaporizer, not across the border for a magnum .45

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Only one third of Canadian murders involve firearms. Most Canadian weapons are rifles or shotguns owned by rural property owners, hunters and target shooters, and are less likely to be used in crimes. Many types of weapons are banned or restricted in Canada. The two biggest provinces, Ontario and Quebec have had a long history of strict gun controls. Most of the users of these illegal firearms are youth in their teens and early 20s.

It is effectively illegal to carry concealed handguns in Canada. There is a permit that allows people to carry if they can prove they need to protect their lives but the permit is very rarely issued. Only about 50 permits had been issued in all of Canada as of 2000. In the same year there were approximately 1 million hand guns in Canada, compared to 77 million in the United States.[12] Defensive use of firearms is uncommon in Canada.[13]

Canada has more guns and fewer controls on them than most nations in Western Europe (exceptions being Finland, Norway and Switzerland which have comparatively fewer restrictions) or Japan. Gun ownership rate is about 27% of households with great regional variations, rural much higher than urban, west higher than east. Guns are also illegally brought into Canada.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada

[YourGrandpa]

you carry? routinely?

Yes and yes. The only time I don't carry is when I know I'm going some place that I'm not legally allowed to have a firearm on my person.

[R00k]

Out of curiosity Puff, would your ideal solution to this problem be the repealing of our 2nd amendment? Or would you lean more towards America's banning of all guns that aren't specifically made for hunting?