Quake3World

Yesturday I played better than I ever have in my life. My first match of the day, and also my first match against a long time rival and real life friend of mine. I was makingamazing shots, ones that I could not believe myself, and what was more was the consistancy. I had upwards of 61% rg accuracy, and I was using it all the time. My reflexes were amazing, and it was so consistant that it could not have just been luck. It was the strongest connection I have ever felt with a game engine. We were one, there was no translation time. My thoughts were instantly recreated on the screen.

The next match I totally got owned and was down to like 30% wih the rail. The thing is, I feel like I should be able to play that good all the time, but muscle memory is holding me back. That made sound like a cop out, but I have no other way to explain it. After a match or two, my reflexes just become stagnant and zombielike. Does anyone have any techniques to get beyond this? Could it really be a matter of practice? I really feel like I could play this game professionally if it weren't for muscle memory.

EDIT: Post the song you listen to before you play an important match, if any.

If your doing good, then not, its not muscle memory. Possibly fatigue, but unlikely.

Julios will likly provide a sweet answer in time but really its just practice practice practice to the point where it actually becomes muscle memory.

I'm not sure that muscle memory is the right concept here.

Muscle memory is certainly important: for example, it's important that your flicks are well calibrated (so that you always apply the right amount of force to move the mouse the precise amount needed).

What you experienced was what some term peak performance.

Typically experienced as effortless, on fire, in the zone, etc.

Reflexes improve, and time slows down. You are a calm, zen, warrior, and there is no anxiety or ego.

If you are in this state and you lose, you feel like congratulating your opponent, because you realize she has earned the victory against your best self.

Many people use drugs to achieve these states, others are naturally good at them.

There are probably a few things you can do to actively influence the probability of achieving such a state, and you might want to research techniques that athletes use (gymnastics, figure skating, and billiard-type games, tennis, etc.).

Your physiological state is what counts here, both of the body and the brain, and it's probably important to find which states work for you, and try to achieve them consistently.

For example, you may perform best during certain "bioryhthmic" states. Having a consistent sleep schedule, and playing at the same time, will allow you to develop your peak-performance-cultivation skills within a more consistent physiological environment.

Nutrition and digestive considerations should also not be ignored. I find I am most relaxed after a good bowel movement, so when I work out, cycle, or play volleyball, I try to ensure I've had a decent crap

Meditation may also help. I haven't experimented with this much, though if I start playing again I certainly will. Certain forms of meditation are great for reducing the workload of the brain, so as to free up mental resources for the task at hand. Breathing exercises combined with a conscious effort to eliminate thought is a good exercise.

It also follows that on average, you will probably perform better if you have no issues digging away at you. Try to resolve issues as much as possible before trying to attain peak state. Else your mind will be working to resolve them subconsciously (which is probably experienced as background anxiety). As an example, you probably want to have finished your essay that's due the next day, if you want to perform well in quake.

Visualization may also help. Try to visualize those crazy multi-axis flick mid-air rockets in advance.

Ideally, you want to find your own preparation routine which you can use before you start playing. Czm told me that he used to listen to a certain song before playing important matches. Everyone has their own "song", and that song may lose its potency after time.

The most important thing is that you learn to recognize the state of mind when you're in it, and become mindful of it.

It's the same principle used in bio-feedback. People can learn to control their heart rate and brain wave activity if they are shown a monitor which gives them feedback about their heart/brain states. I've heard one person describe their ability to change their heart rate as putting your hand in a black box and pulling some unknown lever - they're not exactly sure how they do it, or at least they cannot verbally articulate it, but with training and experience, they can do it more-or-less consistently at will.

Another thing - if you find yourself out of the zone, don't be afraid to just accept that today's not your day.

If you're in a real rut, it may mean that you've become saturated with detrimental habits, and need a break.

:icon14: hats off to that reply

Indeed, it was a good one by julios.

I know one thing now. If julios was ever to win a duel against czm or cooller and then he got interviewed about it he would probably say " if it wasn't for that huge shit I took this morning I don't think I'd have won this match!. I owe it all to turdy "

DRuM wrote: If julios was ever to win a duel against czm or cooller and then he got interviewed about it he would probably say " if it wasn't for that huge shit I took this morning I don't think I'd have won this match!. I owe it all to turdy "

Never played cooler, but dueled a fair amount with czm. He beat me most of the time, but i was bound to win the odd one

and yes, many good shits occured.

Crikey julios, beating czm is actually a hell of an achievement. Most people wouldn't beat him even once. That's very good going, you must have been really leet.

[xeno]Julios wrote:dueled a fair amount with czm. He beat me most of the time, but i was bound to win the odd one

Wow! :icon25:

if it was a tournament situation, i wouldn't have done as well. I tended to play pretty crap in tournaments - could never get my mouse cord looped properly, got nervous, etc.

many players are able to play really well when they're in their element.

what separates them from the true elites are the ones that can pull this off consistently and in pressure situations.

[xeno]Julios wrote:
what separates them from the true elites are the ones that can pull this off consistently and in pressure situations.

I think that's true of the greats in all things, be it games, sports, music, etc. I believe these true elites are pretty much born with those assets of absolute calmness and no nerves. Some people simply never get nervous about anything and that's an enviable trait.

If you are in this state and you lose, you feel like congratulating your opponent, because you realize she has earned the victory against your best self.

Heh...that may explain why I never have had a good 1v1 game. Since When I lose I'm so pissed off am rdy to rip the moniter out of the wall and throw it, and how I always spam how much bs it was in game. I can never stay calm

Krazy_K wrote:

and how I always spam how much bs it was in game.

Wow, can I get a game? :icon26:

I've had CTF clan matches where i've felt nervous and with a shaky aim, but also matches where it went away and just kept playing better. It was nicest when i was relaxed from the start. You really need to feel like you don't care about the results of the match but only concentrate to play well. It's not possible to be in that state of mind if your physiological condition isn't likewise (relaxed, not tired, not desperately needing to go to the bathroom ).

[xeno]Julios wrote:Breathing exercises combined with a conscious effort to eliminate thought is a good exercise.

The most natural way to get a relaxed mind through 'meditation' is not to try to eliminate thoughts, but to just accept thoughts whenever they come, without persuing them. When you do this (with the eyes closed to shut off from your senses), the natural tendency of the mind is to go towards a more silent state, which simultanously relaxes the body (brings down heart rate, blood pressure etc.). So without concentrating you can get more alert inside (if you start to feel sleepy it means you've had a lack of sleep).

Another thing that affects your gaming performance is daylight. Sunlight inhibits the production of the melatonin hormone which helps you fall asleep. Spending too many hours indoors makes you sleepy during the day and insomnious at night because you don't have enough melatonin left to fall asleep.

Oeloe wrote:The most natural way to get a relaxed mind through 'meditation' is not to try to eliminate thoughts, but to just accept thoughts whenever they come, without persuing them. .

Interesting.

I've read buddhist philosophers speak of how the mind in its turbulent state is like an ocean with a waterfall pouring ontop of it, disturbing the surface.

As you become more and more "relaxed", it's as if the waterfall turns into drops of water, and finally, nothing.

The result is that there are no ripples on the surface.

You're suggesting a better metaphor would be that the falling water is not what you eliminate, but the ripple effects.

And then once you deal with the ripples, the drops of water stop coming.

(or something like that).

:icon27: Right, very helpfull.

But anyway, thanks for the glorious replies. But, I thought muscle memory was my problem for these reasons: Muscle memory is what causes the quick little reflexes in those little pinpoint muscles when you are doing something you have done many, many times. This is good sometimes because it helps you to perform at a steady level of skill.. or something... and when you sit down to play after a long hiatus, muscle memory is minimum, so you are able to adapt to situations you are not used to better, and you are able to use your own muscles in an ideal fashion as oposed to a set, autpmated path you always use. Like, I always rail the same way. This yields a certain field of accuracy percentages. When I play without muscle memory, I am able to make make every hand in my muscle do exactly what I want it to, instead of what it always does. After playing a little, my hand remembers what it is doing and reverts to it's old path.

Lenard wrote:
This is good sometimes because it helps you to perform at a steady level of skill.. or something... and when you sit down to play after a long hiatus, muscle memory is minimum, so you are able to adapt to situations you are not used to better, and you are able to use your own muscles in an ideal fashion as oposed to a set, autpmated path you always use.

Ahh i see what you mean.

Yes that's related to the saturation of bad habits I mentioned.

But don't be fooled into thinking that muscle memory is what your performance boiled down to. Peak performance is a function of much more than simply overcoming "muscle memory".

I'm also not sure I like the idea of muscle memory - it's a bit too simplistic in this context.

Your motor responses are a function of many cognitive aspects of the dynamic system which is your brain. Ideally, you want fluid and adaptable responses to the situation, but this requires more than merely overcoming "preprogrammed responses".

Also, don't be fooled into thinking that just because your responses are fluid, they aren't pre-programmed. When you're on fire, and you need to execute a 154 degree flick, you're using muscle memory so you can accurately execute the flick.

Next time I bump into my labmate (he's in kinesiology), I'll ask him for some info so i can give you a better account of what happens with respect to the motorvisual system.

(Edit, not talking to you julios, but the post above yours.)

See I do not think thats exactly what muscle memory is. I have always thought that muscle memory is what you have trained your body to do instinctivly. When your rail was through the roof, where you concentrating more, or just letting it flow?

I have a feeling that you were just letting the game play naturally. Later when your numbers came back down to your normal levels you probably started to try and aim and at that point you went back to your normal and comfortable movement patterns.

If all you did for a few hours a day, every day for a month was work on letting your rail aim become a natural and comfortable movement, I would bet that you would see improvements.

Arent their any marksmen around here? Guys who go to the firing range? I bet anything the top shooters no longer aim, more then they simply do what comes naturally.

I cant relate to it in a hand-eye fashion like actual shooting or playing a FPS but when I was playing football at a decent level my movements got to the point where running backwards, and all of my footwork became my first reflex, not something that I had to think about whatsoever. At that point it becomes muscle memory, and if your more average rail acc. is what you currently have as muscle memory you will simply have to break that habit just as a rookie corner has to learn how to do everything backwards.

Way to much typing for this time of night. :icon3:

And now that I have typed all that I think I may have argued my way around to your point of view and that your lower accuracy is ingrained in muscle memory, so what to do to erase it. Hmm. I think repetition and practice are all you can do, just like you would break a bad habit if you played any other sport. Hours of training every day. :icon32:

I imagine practicing many hours will just improve your 'muscle memory'. That's what guys like Fatal1ty are all about. Keeping control in difficult situations must become routine.

I think playing good after a long break by playing instinctively means you do predictive shots without consciously deciding when/where you want to shoot. A way to improve your muscle memory is to consciously try to improve your predictions though (learning patterns in movements of opponents and how to respond to them on a particular map(!)).

So in this case, memory refers to the structures in your brain (neuron structures) that enable you to consistently/accurately have the same motor response on a current sensory experience over and over again (like aiming with the PG well). These neuron patterns become more permanent with more repetition of the same actions/experiences.

I don't know why it is, but I often play very well my first round after a few days of not playing. After that I'm back to my average self.

Psyche911 wrote:I don't know why it is, but I often play very well my first round after a few days of not playing. After that I'm back to my average self.

Yep, sounds familiar. After that you need to try to consciously take on good habits (methods of aiming and moving), which is where knowledge and experience come in.

duhard has the facts

go there

Lenard wrote:The next match I totally got owned and was down to like 30% wih the rail. The thing is, I feel like I should be able to play that good all the time, but muscle memory is holding me back.

I disagree. The difference is the opponent you're playing, not you being inconsistent. Better players will make you look and feel worse as worse players will make you look and feel better. It's as simple as that.

The same is true of all games and sports. I remember last year during the NFL playoffs, I had a conversation with someone about the Falcons. They had a really good first round match and their running game looked amazing. The person I was talking to felt the Falcons would win the next game because Warrick Dunn looked incredibly fast against St.Louis in their 47-17 win with 142 yards rushing. But, I was skeptical, because St.Louis had a mediocre defense. Sure enough, the next game, the Falcons lost to Philadelphia 10-27 and Dunn, with only 59 yards, didn't look so fast because they played a better team.

So, I'd argue your rail percentage and win percentage varies widely based on whom you play - it's not constant. You probably got down your timing against your friend because you've played him/her so much and you've grown accustom to his/her mannerisms, too. Then, when you played a different, likely better player, you were back to a clean slate.

First up, excellent thread :icon14:. I myself notice that I play best when I actually don't care about the objective of the game but just play doing what comes natural.

In team games this is support or defence breaking or in solo games getting certain weapons that spawn at preset times. I can't for the life of me get the MH or RA when I try to remember the spawntimes but if I'm just having fun it seems that I naturally head towards a spawnarea at the right time without thinking or taking on 3 guys at a time in teamgames and taking them down (killing myself in the process but still :icon32:).

I guess this comes from the no pressure bit julios talked about. Fun games become even better this way. Oh and a bit of alcohol makes me play relaxed too so the drug thing is true as well.

clkou wrote:The difference is the opponent you're playing,

For the record, I was playing the same person all these matches. You are all right in alot of ways and this is some good advise. Yeah, I did get nervous after that I suppose, but the difference was so dramatic. I guess it really comes down to concsiousley trying to play in a calm and organized manner and practicing at it consistantly. When I play almost anyone that I think is better than me, or even if I don't know, I usually get nervous and screw myself over entirely. Confidence is important too, I guess.

I'm a bit worried because I play better/more relaxed after a beer as well...
It's an artificial way to get into a more relaxed state, when I get home I usually drink 2 cups of coffee, later in the evening I may have a beer and it seems to better my play (or I'm just imagining it ).
After I played some games I get to a state that I'm not consciously thinking, seems to help as well. Even when I start to get tired I (sometimes) play a bit better for a short while. It all seems to affect the "getting into a more relaxed state" so I can imagine how bad (most of us?) I would do at a LAN...