Quake3World

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:18 pm**

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/interna ... 74,00.html

"The Whore Lived Like a German"

By Jody K. Biehl in Berlin

In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?
The shots came from nowhere and within minutes the young Turkish mother standing at the Berlin bus stop was dead. A telephone call from a relative had brought her to this cold, unforgiving place. She thought she would only be gone for a few minutes and wore a light jacket in the freezing February wind. She had left her five-year-old son asleep in his bed. He awoke looking for his mother, who, like many Turkish women in Germany, harbored a secret life of fear, courage and, ultimately, grief. Now her little boy has his own tragedy to bear: His mother, Hatin Surucu, was not the victim of random violence, but likely died at the hands of her own family in what is known as an "honor killing."

Hatin's crime, it appears, was the desire to lead a normal life in her family's adopted land. The vivacious 23-year-old beauty, who was raised in Berlin, divorced the Turkish cousin she was forced to marry at age 16. She also tossed off her Islamic head scarf, enrolled in a technical school where she was training to become an electrician and began dating German men. For her family, such behavior represented the ultimate shame -- the embrace of "corrupt" Western ways. Days after the crime, police arrested her three brothers, ages 25, 24 and 18. The youngest of the three allegedly bragged to his girlfriend about the Feb. 7 killing. At her funeral, Hakin's Turkish-Kurdish parents draped their only daughter's casket in verses from the Koran and buried her according to Muslim tradition. Absent of course, were the brothers, who were in jail.

...

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:22 pm**

They didn't kill her for not wearing a headscarf.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:23 pm**

There have been several of these "honor murders" here the last couple of years too.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:26 pm**

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:They didn't kill her for not wearing a headscarf.

they might kill you for beeing to lazy to read the article though.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:27 pm**

Pext wrote:
HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:They didn't kill her for not wearing a headscarf.
they might kill you for beeing to lazy to read the article though.

I read the article. What is your point?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:38 pm**

Grudge wrote:There have been several of these "honor murders" here the last couple of years too.

And here.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:40 pm**

Hey some fundamentalist Christians killed some abortion doctors. We should ban abortions so that stops. We should also probably ban the wearing of crucifixs too.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:41 pm**

well abortion is murder right?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:42 pm**

wrong, any questions?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:42 pm**

Lets ban stupid fat americans.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:43 pm**

like tenderloin?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:43 pm**

well its a life...and then u kill it...what do u call that? tuff love?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:45 pm**

it should have happened to you, you'd realize it can be a good thing

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:50 pm**

i'm not i'm against abortion at all...i killed a few in my days...but to deny its murder is just plain gay...

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:01 pm**

Ryoki wrote:
And here.

where?

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:02 pm**

'unborn life' is an oxymoron, moron.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:02 pm**

reefsurfer wrote:
Ryoki wrote:
And here.
where?

Netherlands.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:08 pm**

Ryoki wrote:
reefsurfer wrote:
Ryoki wrote:
And here.
where?
Netherlands.

aah.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:32 pm**

Pext, that's bullshit plz....

That law doesn't allow women to wear their headress in such institutions, they simply aren't given the choice.

You're a smart guy, don't defend the indefensible.

As for honor killings, they are disgusting, and these countries should offer special police protections for individuals who choose to defy their family and live a progressive non-religious life.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:39 pm**

huh... that's not my point of view. i thought you might find it interresting to read though.
i actually agree that the scarf banning is not a usefull tool to break up the conservative structure described in the article. the women that are surpressed this way are not even able to get a job that would deny them to wear their scarf.
i'd agree with you if you said that the bannings are expression of some wish for separation from the unknown. i think the conservatives are a bit afraid of the islam. stupid christians

besides - this is not about honor killings in 'these countries' - it's happening in the heart of europe.

[edit]
i still think the banning is acceptable though - as i'd love to see the fucking church next to my house beeing prevented from waking me every given sunday with their bells.

but this is because i think religion is stupin in general. the goverment and it's representatives should not be allowed to represent their religion while at duty.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:44 pm**

By 'these countries', I mean european countries. They realize there is a growing islamic population, they should adjust to that reality by encouraging open and free societies but not forcing it. The special police protections are one example.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:48 pm**

Pext wrote: [edit]
i still think the banning is acceptable though - as i'd love to see the fucking church next to my house beeing prevented from waking me every given sunday with their bells.
but this is because i think religion is stupin in general. the goverment and it's representatives should not be allowed to represent their religion while at duty.

Yes, religious ethics and morality don't have a place in progressive government. I'm not sure if you're speaking in jest but as long as I don't have to be woken up, or hear church bells early on sunday, I won't interfere with the will of others to worship as they please.

Posted: **Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:52 pm**

My opinion is you can wear a head scarf all day long if you want to. But if you're joining a private organization, they can ask you not to wear it; if you're getting a drivers license picture, you shouldn't wear it; if you move here, you should not be persecuted for making a choice to not wear it.

Sure it's a custom, but that doesn't justify mercenary killings. What if Jews started killing all the Jewish people who didn't wear their yarmulkes, what would people think of that? They'd think it was fucking barbaric - just like any asshole who will kill his own flesh and blood for not wearing a stupid hat is barbaric.

It's not a Moslim thing, it's a fanatic thing. The sad part is, Moslims are starting to allow the fanatics to speak for them and give the whole people a reputation -- when what they should be doing, at the very least, is speaking out loudly against it anytime a killing like this happens.

At the very most, they should be issuing fatwahs against these lunatics, instead of issuing killing orders against people who write fucking books.
The Moslim faith today has the same problem as the Catholic church -- its leadership. None of them have the balls to stand up against tradition.

Posted: **Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:03 am**

Freakaloin wrote:well its a life...and then u kill it...what do u call that? tuff love?

:lol:

Posted: **Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:15 am**

Don't encourage him.

Quake3World

Banning of scarfs in europe ( Massive Quasars -> )

Banning of scarfs in europe ( Massive Quasars -> )