Quake3World

***FINAL!***

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Servers:
LovingAngel's Q4Max Server: 194.124.229.14:27500 (maps)
FragArcade Server: 64.34.178.176:28004 (mappack)

Screenies:

To load it in Q4, type:

spawnserver mp/wvwq4dm2_alpha2

Hope everyone is ok if I "fix" a few topics to make it clear that these are for Q4 or D3 etc...

hey wviperw, can you include an aas file so us poor slobs that have to use a bot to play with can run around in this map :]

I tried to make one in sabot but it wouldnt work

PS: I post some thoughts over at the Q4 forum, just some impressions from running around in the map

Should be an aas file included already. In fact, I was just playing on the level w/ some bots today. Of course, they're not the smartest in the world. They kept getting stuck at RG, and would also keep falling in the lava. But their 94% LG accuracy made up for that I guess.

Also, I'd be up for playing you, or anybody for that matter. Just let me know and I'll throw up a server (eww, that sounded gross).

It's good to see one of best mappers is back to mapping....

I'll check out your map as soon as I get my new pc today...and install q4....

Beta is out btw.

I like the layout, the risky RG and LG, and the visuals. The things I don't like are the almost-dead-ends at MH, RA, the IMHO cliche teleout jump to the RL (but if it's fun, keep it), the same goddamn floating platform I hated in q2dm3, and a sort of flat feel to the level. I won't go deep into gameplay becuase q4mp doesn't work for me, so here's some thoughts on visuals.

The rocky stuff is very cool, but isn't all that well constructed. There are texture seams and hard edges all over the place, a few sparklies... basically you need to model this stuff in q4. If you don't use a modelling package, get someone who does to help you out. At the very least they'd be able to import your geometry and fix the smoothing and texture coordinate issues. I might be up for that if necessary.

You have a sorting issue where the teleporter is rendered in front of your fragpipe glass. Putting "sort decal" or "sort far" in your tele material should fix it.

General texture alignment is pretty good, but I think it could be better.

The mercury seems like an interesting problem, I'll give it a go and let you know if I get something which doesn't suck.

Black_Dog wrote:I like the layout, the risky RG and LG, and the visuals. The things I don't like are the almost-dead-ends at MH, RA, the IMHO cliche teleout jump to the RL (but if it's fun, keep it), the same goddamn floating platform I hated in q2dm3, and a sort of flat feel to the level.

I agree pretty much with this. Vertical connectivity could be better; no need for trickjumps all over the place but there are points where you can't go up, which is rather annoying. For instance:

you can get up here because of the little ramp



but you can't get up here



It must be the Q4 player height fooling me again...

Black_Dog:

"the IMHO cliche teleout jump to the RL"

-Guess I didn't know it was cliche. But it probably won't be there in beta 2.

"the same goddamn floating platform I hated in q2dm3"

-Hehe, you've just gotta respect the slime man. Respect the slime.

"The rocky stuff is very cool, but isn't all that well constructed. There are texture seams and hard edges all over the place, a few sparklies... basically you need to model this stuff in q4."

Meh. I knew people were going to say that. I did this beta over 3 days and had no time to learn an entire modeling package to model my precious rocks. I really don't see it as *that* big of a problem, if I just align all the textures better. But I'd be interested in maybe trying my hand at modeling them if you really think that is the best way to go. Any tuts?

Oleo:

Vertical connectivity should hopefully be better in the next beta.


"The mercury seems like an interesting problem, I'll give it a go and let you know if I get something which doesn't suck."

That's be awesome man. As far as jumping up to the path to RA, that is intentional. I don't want players being able to take that path as it would mean escaping from the RA "hole" potentially too easily.

Thanks for the feedback guys![/b]

I'd be interested in maybe trying my hand at modeling them if you really think that is the best way to go. Any tuts?

That depends on which app you'd be using. Since commands and the exporting process are going to be specific to each program you'd have to look them up. There are some useful tidbits on kat's site (http://www.quake3bits.com/) which explain the general process pretty well.

If you don't care all that much the modelling process might be a bit much to learn, but I think it'd be worth it. Aligning rock textures properly in q4edit is going to be awful if not impossible, and you won't be able to use smoothing or blending.

***BETA 2 is out!***

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Looks like you've left the previous beta in the PK4? I've got a cobalt 2 and 2a showing up?

Anyways

Very dark for me. Stick an 'ambient' light in there ([EDIT].. oh you have!!), but don't use the ambient shader, use fog ([EDIT]... on second thoughts don't, fog don't blend with the skybox at all - I had that same problem although it's more noticable with a black sky) and make it really thin, that should brighten up the map without flattening out the overall lighting (then 'double up' the light - check my hints and tips for details on this one).

As it's an MP map so I'd turn off ALL shadows on ALL the lights, once you start detailing this up it'll get nasty!

Where you've got those shafts that open out into the night sky add an light volume there to lighten those areas slightly (I know it's night time but it'll add to the visuals (use a blue or purpleyblue light).

Good to see use of light detail level, although I'd work on the map as if the minimum number of lights you have is are the only ones you're using so the map is bright enough with those that adding the detail light don't take or add too much in terms of brightness.

The rocks... hmmm. The easiest thing to do was partly what black_dog mentioned above, make them from brushwork as you've already done.... but to make things easier on yourself select all the rock covered brushwork and export it to OBJ from the editor. This will form a guid for you. Get that into a modelling app and then fiddle about for a bit. It's not going to be easy if you've never used a 3D app though.

An alternative is to try getting the Q4 map back into GTK and fiddling with brushwork 'old skool'. Once you've done what you need, export that to ASE (as you would for a Q3 map) and write a material file, hopefully Q4 should apply a global smoothing. I'm theorising here though as I've not tried it going backwards from Q4 Q3. Might be worth a shot and see what you can do.

Won't comment on gameplay coz I'm shit at that!!

Nice.

funny light thing here, hope you can see it in the shot. Looks like one vertical line of light just to the left of the reticle. I get a better shot if need.


I wish this were easier to jump down onto (w/o hitting the jp)


little zfightings on floor. Thats a pretty tough rampjump I thought.


Maybe make the buttons shootable also?


just running around the map I didn't figure out what this button did. (mebbe just stoopid - its early)

I see some misaligned textures here and there. When you stand on the center of the T-bridge that looks out on the window of the electrifiable corridor, the two colums of rocks on either side look unnatural. Too rounded (two cilinders with spherical bottom parts) to look natural.

Btw I managed to press that trap button and quickly RJ into that corridor, but it didn't do much damage. -_- It would also be nice if there were some sparks and sound effects.

Just from the screenshots, but: Is that a Doom3 texture on the floor?

I'd imagine Q4 recycled some D3 textures.

Looks like you've left the previous beta in the PK4? I've got a cobalt 2 and 2a showing up?

Somebody didn't read my original updated post. 'spose I should've mentioned that in my reply post about beta 2 as well though..

Very dark for me. Stick an 'ambient' light in there ([EDIT].. oh you have!!), but don't use the ambient shader, use fog ([EDIT]... on second thoughts don't, fog don't blend with the skybox at all - I had that same problem although it's more noticable with a black sky) and make it really thin, that should brighten up the map without flattening out the overall lighting (then 'double up' the light - check my hints and tips for details on this one).

Ok, you've got me confused now w/ all the edits. Do I need to change anything with the ambient or not? The map doesn't seem that dark to me.

Where you've got those shafts that open out into the night sky add an light volume there to lighten those areas slightly (I know it's night time but it'll add to the visuals (use a blue or purpleyblue light).

I'm actually already using parallel "sky" lights in those open shaft areas as shown in one of your tutorials.

The rocks: Hmm, not sure what I'm gonna do with them. I've basically got to get this map finished in the next 2 days (over the weekend) in order to have it done by the March 1 deadline. That means whatever I do with the rocks will have to be quick. And considering I don't know how to use any current modeling programs, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.

Hex: Yeah, I've noticed that as well. Have no idea what is causing that and therefore no idea how to fix it. Regarding the jumppad, yeah, that'll be fixed. Regarding the third button up top, that does the same thing as the other 2 buttons.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

About those rocks: try to make the surface of the parts that look unnaturaly rounded a bit more crooked.

Sorry about the edits. I had a look at the map file itself and got a little lost, so my edits got a bit confusing!.

If you're happy with the lighting 'as is' in terms of brightess then go with that, the only real suggestion was basically to try and limit any use of volumes with the ambient material applied because that flattens everything too much (at least for my liking anyway). It all depends on the 'look' you're going for really I guess.

The only *major* thing was to turn off the shadows on volumes that are reasonably large, especially when you have rows of lights as looking through those volumes could get painfull, and you have to question whether the cost is worth the minor visual effect of the shadows being seen.

The rocks: here's a quick fix... see if you can make a texture that has 'mining' mark on it, make the normal map look like the rocks have been carved flat, they basically have the striation left by the machinary. That way you'll be able to get a way with leave flat walls.. of create some crisscross strapwork with rock bits showing through in places so it looks like the rocks are being trussed back into place... basically you want to create a texture that will allow you to leave the rock walls flat but still convincing.

***FINAL!***

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This map is also mirrored here.

Thanks roughrider! Is it okay if I put that link up on my website as well?

Also, did you redo your roughrider maps page? Looks new.

wviperw wrote:Thanks roughrider! Is it okay if I put that link up on my website as well?

Also, did you redo your roughrider maps page? Looks new.

Yes to both questions