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Tutorial - Level Planning

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:53 am
by Method
I'm almost finished with The Making of Mash-Up Streets (my new Q4 map) article. For now, check out Level Planning:

http://www.gamedesign.net/node/1206

The Making of Mash-Up Streets will be similar to this tutorial:

http://www.gamedesign.net/node/1124

-Method

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:33 am
by Hex
Nice.

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:51 am
by xfoo
Really good articles.

I wish that when I designed my levels that I could make the single small rooms as you do in your sketches. Whenever I do that my connecting hallways tend to be stupid large, and thus need to usually have the entire level drawn out to proper size before I'm even happy starting it.

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:09 am
by Method
Thanks. I want to add that those sketches were created specifically for the tutorial. In other words, I knew what I would sketch. Check out sketches from Level Design Process tutorial, they're more rough and uncertain. I go through various sketches, I refine rooms, then quickly sketch the revised version to look at a clearer picture. Sketches are not to be shown off, they're primary for the designer to jot down some ideas. See what I mean?

-Method

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 pm
by Hex
I like to sketch a floorplan too

[lvlshot]http://mhgaming.com/forums/q4hexdm2sketch@4.jpg[/lvlshot]

Edit: Fixed image tags. AEon

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:21 pm
by AEon
Method,
at first I was wondering about the methodology (small pun ;)... but after some thought, the articles just show that even though something may be obvious, in most cases folks just don't see it (including myself)...

What really impressed my in your second article is the image progression for that one room. From basic building blocks to fully detailed + lighting + textured room. If things really work out for you that efficiently I can only tip my hat.

Alas my problem is usually that the map evolves while I actually flesh out the map in detail (geometry), and the "good" additions usually only come up after running about my the current version, checking how things feel and then adding new geometry where necessary.

My "best" ideas usually are accidents, that derive from having to solve problems, e.g. design vs. layout paths. So sketching things out would never get me there alas.

Another problem I have with sketches is 3D. For maps that are really interlaced 3D (the popular ztn 1on1 map comes to mind). I don't think such a layout could actually properly be projected on 2D?

As that may be... the articles are inspiring, and just having someone else show how things can work is great.

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:13 pm
by Silicone_Milk
man, this was an amazingly awesome tutorial for something so simple it's profound.

My problem is that I would just kinda wander through the editor room by room building each room up with details and everything then I would get bored and start a new map lol.

I'd always get ideas in the middle of doing something while away from the computer so I wouldn't be able to get them down on to the editor or if I did, Id get distracted and my idea would suddenly turn into something else entirely.

I carry a small notebook with me now to sketch ideas into. I just made use of it yesterday and was able to get it down flawlessly onto the editor.

It's amazing how much of a difference it's seemed to make so far lol

Thanks a ton for pointing out the overlooked obvious (no sarcasm there, honestly)

:icon14: :icon25:

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:14 am
by Method
Thanks for the comments guys.

AEon: Keep in mind that the stuff I wrote about is my methods of designing a level, hence my name. There's no right way. Everyone has their own methods.

That texture progression is just stages. The area gets better as you refine it. It gets much better with final polishing. I have some progression screenshots in The Making of Mash-Up Streets article.

About that accident ideas, I get that too sometimes.

I don't think anyone sketches the full map. 99% of the time, the layout will change in one way or another, so sketching the whole thing out is not that useful. Plus if you can "think in 3D" you have the map in your head. Sketch out some simple gameplay ideas or area geometry.

Silicone_Milk: I'm really glad that you got something out of it. Hopefully The Making of Mash-Up Streets will be as interesting.

-Method

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:15 am
by AEon
Method,
my comments were not so much as to point at some "right" way. I was more wonding if you had found some way to circumvent the problems of 3D layout in sketches (tricks, tips what might work etc.).

Just noted that I actually had done some simple layout (top-down) sketches for AEglow... :)

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:29 am
by Method
You can sketch top, side and front views if the level is too complicated. Maybe come up with different kinds of arrows, that mean that the player can walk or jump in that area. I use this format:

Straight arrow - player can walk there
Curvy arrow - player can jump/trickjump in that area

Now when I think about it the sketch shouldn't be exactly what you want to built. It's simply a reminder of the idea you had, because when time passes, your ideas do too. So it's not only for visuals, it's a reminder as well.

I suggest you look into architect books, they have pre-defined rules and legend you can use to indicate spaces and pathways.

-Method

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:01 am
by Silicone_Milk
again, :icon14: :icon25:

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:39 am
by Johnny Law
Thanks for the heads-up about the article(s). I love geeking out with stuff like that.

From time to time when I've been mapping-active, I think about documenting part of the process with nice pictures etc., but whenever I sit down with a free hour or two I usually end up thinking "well I could poke around at writing something up, or I could actually make progress on my current map." Props to folks who take the time to share these nifty details. Just so you know, even people familiar with your topic will often find something new to think about, or at the very least enjoy observing a fellow hobbyist at work.

One thing that would be ULTIMATE COOLNESS would be if someone took a "time lapse photography" series of an interesting section of their map, from start to finish, and made a movie out of it. Although, while doing a project like that, it would have the downside of frequently reminding you how much time the map is sucking out of your life. :)

--------------------------

Some random contributions about the methodology I've personally ended up with for construction, since I'm done with mapping for tonight and my only alternative activity is sleeping. (This doesn't even touch other design ideas about the "hook" for your map or planning its general aesthetic.)

I'm a bad pencil sketcher, and sketching doesn't give me a good feel for gameplay, so I sketch with the editor. Floors are the combat surfaces, so I start with floors "suspended in space" inside an enclosing box, for me to run around on. A few other surfaces if necessary to get the essential shape of the playing field. First pass at entity placement as well.

Next is the remaining basic walls/ceilings to get a better feel for sightlines and try some bot play.

When I have the layout I want, I rip out everything except the floors again. I've found that if I have squarish walls and ceilings staring at me it's hard for me to build any interesting shapes.

After that I mess around with detailed brushwork making up some "themes", e.g. this is what the wall will look like for basement halls. The final proportions of the various themed pieces help adjust how the playable areas fit together.

Once a few themes are ready to go, I start doing the real brushwork. In the process I end up making new themes or adjusting existing ones.

It seems to help a lot, for me, to have superficially-conflicting demands to try to deal with... floors and patterns that don't meet up in tidy, obvious ways. Sometimes I spend several minutes just rotating a section on various axes staring at it, trying to figure out how the hell I'm going to put the puzzle pieces together in a way that looks right w/o screwing with the layout. It seems that there's always an answer, if you're willing to tear up enough of your already-laid brushwork :), and the result can help improve the look or even the layout of the map by driving you away from obvious/boring solutions.

I think it's common to do approximately-final texture work as you beaver your way across the map doing the detailed brushwork, but it could be worthwhile to try to make the map look cool with just a few solid textures, or even just "caulk", and then do your texturing pass after the brushwork is done. (Which may cause reconsideration of some of the brushwork; c'est la vie.) The danger in the latter approach is over-detailing the brushwork.


My current project -- sixth map if you count a UT duel map that I eventually abandoned when the editor pissed me off one too many times -- is the first time I've followed all of the above ideas. A few months from now I may be singing a different tune!

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:54 am
by Johnny Law
AEon wrote:My "best" ideas usually are accidents, that derive from having to solve problems, e.g. design vs. layout paths.
Just FYI, I think I missed that line on my first read through this thread, but I ended up saying the same thing in my post... so this may be an interesting point. :)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:49 pm
by AEon
I mentioned the "accidents" because - working on my current map AEglow - I had tried to prototype it out, i.e. I had created certain corners, and stairs, etc. designs, then build low poly versions of them (just the outside shape), and started to place them.

Trouble was that turned out to be a totally sterile uninteresting layout and design. Had to scrap it and start from zero.

Presently I changed map layout several times, moving whole sections, because I simply could not properly connect one height level with another one using my standard building blocks. In the end I built a tube corridor not only bent by 90° but that also angles up.

To be clear, if you can actually fully imagine your map in your head (before you even start to map) that would indeed *really* help speed up mapping. Alas I was never able to do that, other than in a very unspecific "vague vision" sort of way.